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Looking for advice on expanding horizonsFollow

#1 Oct 07 2010 at 2:24 PM Rating: Good
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So, yea. I'm trying to expand my horizons with some critical thinking, science, etc. I'm thinking of checking out something by Richard Dawkins and was looking for advice on which book to look at first. I'm pondering either The God Delusion or The Greatest Show on Earth

Suggestions?

Edited, Oct 19th 2010 4:54pm by Osarion Lock Thread: OP Requested
#2 Oct 07 2010 at 2:41 PM Rating: Good
Princess ShadorVIII wrote:
So, yea. I'm trying to expand my horizons with some critical thinking, science, etc. I'm thinking of checking out something by Richard Dawkins and was looking for advice on which book to look at first. I'm pondering either The God Delusion or The Greatest Show on Earth

Suggestions?


Hm. I suggest "Small Gods" by Terry Pratchett, and "The Great and Secret Show" by Clive Barker.

No, not exactly what you were asking, but far better suggestions, I promise you.
#3 Oct 07 2010 at 2:45 PM Rating: Excellent
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Belkira the Tulip wrote:
Princess ShadorVIII wrote:
So, yea. I'm trying to expand my horizons with some critical thinking, science, etc. I'm thinking of checking out something by Richard Dawkins and was looking for advice on which book to look at first. I'm pondering either The God Delusion or The Greatest Show on Earth

Suggestions?


Hm. I suggest "Small Gods" by Terry Pratchett, and "The Great and Secret Show" by Clive Barker.

No, not exactly what you were asking, but far better suggestions, I promise you.



Err.... thanks. I'll keep those in mind, but I wasn't really looking for entertainment.
#4 Oct 07 2010 at 3:47 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Hm. I suggest "Small Gods" by Terry Pratchett, and "The Great and Secret Show" by Clive Barker.

No, not exactly what you were asking, but far better suggestions, I promise you.



She's right. It's a far better suggestion. Everything by Pratchett is awesome.
#5 Oct 07 2010 at 6:42 PM Rating: Decent
Princess ShadorVIII wrote:
Belkira the Tulip wrote:
Princess ShadorVIII wrote:
So, yea. I'm trying to expand my horizons with some critical thinking, science, etc. I'm thinking of checking out something by Richard Dawkins and was looking for advice on which book to look at first. I'm pondering either The God Delusion or The Greatest Show on Earth

Suggestions?


Hm. I suggest "Small Gods" by Terry Pratchett, and "The Great and Secret Show" by Clive Barker.

No, not exactly what you were asking, but far better suggestions, I promise you.



Err.... thanks. I'll keep those in mind, but I wasn't really looking for entertainment.


Anytime!

If, however, you're looking for entertainment and a broadening of horizons, I suggest Ishmael by Daniel Quinn.
#6 Oct 07 2010 at 7:14 PM Rating: Decent
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Belkira the Tulip wrote:
Princess ShadorVIII wrote:
Belkira the Tulip wrote:
Princess ShadorVIII wrote:
So, yea. I'm trying to expand my horizons with some critical thinking, science, etc. I'm thinking of checking out something by Richard Dawkins and was looking for advice on which book to look at first. I'm pondering either The God Delusion or The Greatest Show on Earth

Suggestions?


Hm. I suggest "Small Gods" by Terry Pratchett, and "The Great and Secret Show" by Clive Barker.

No, not exactly what you were asking, but far better suggestions, I promise you.



Err.... thanks. I'll keep those in mind, but I wasn't really looking for entertainment.


Anytime!

If, however, you're looking for entertainment and a broadening of horizons, I suggest Ishmael by Daniel Quinn.


I felt like I was tripping on acid when I read that.
#7REDACTED, Posted: Oct 07 2010 at 9:44 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I think "The Great and Secret Show" is worth reading.
#8 Oct 08 2010 at 12:34 AM Rating: Excellent
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Play alpha centauri, read the quotes.

What?
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#9 Oct 08 2010 at 1:01 AM Rating: Good
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Timelordwho wrote:
Play alpha centauri, read the quotes.

What?

One of these days, someone needs to write a philosophy book solely based on the different quotes from Alpha Centauri.
#10 Oct 08 2010 at 2:09 PM Rating: Good
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The One and Only Poldaran wrote:
Timelordwho wrote:
Play alpha centauri, read the quotes.

What?

One of these days, someone needs to write a philosophy book solely based on the different quotes from Alpha Centauri.


You mean, this?
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#11 Oct 08 2010 at 4:37 PM Rating: Good
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Do yourself a favor and don't fall into the Dawkinite trap. The God Delusion isn't a terrible book, but it won't tell you anything you don't already know. Out of the "Four Horsemen," only Harris and Hitchens really do anything groundbreaking. If you must go with one of them, try God is Not Great. I haven't read The Greatest Show on Earth yet, so I can't comment on it. As for outside the Semi-fab Four, A Demon Haunted World is one of my favorite books, if for nothing more than how beautifully Sagan can manipulate the English language.

Edited, Oct 8th 2010 8:23pm by LeWoVoc
#12 Oct 08 2010 at 6:37 PM Rating: Good
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LeWoVoc wrote:
Do yourself a favor and don't fall into the Dawkinite trap. The God Delusion isn't a terrible book, but it won't tell you anything you don't already know.


What do you mean "The Dawkinite Trap"?

See, having been raised in a very strict cult, I feel I need something like TGD to re-enforce and bolster my newly-embraced athiesm. I actually went and bought TGD on iTunes. After just the first chapter, I find that Dawkins really resonates with me. His contempt for, even (I would say) hatred for God and religion mirrors my own.

Because of that cult upbringing, you would be surprised what I don't know. For instance, until Chapter 1 of TGD, I actually thought that Albert Einstein, Carl Sagan, et. al., had at least some vague belief in the God of the Bible, due to blatent misrepresntation and misquotation in literature produced by the cult I was raised in. It was refreshing to learn that these great minds were not referring to some mystical sky wizard when they used the term "God."


LeWoVoc wrote:
Out of the "Four Horsemen," only Harris and Hitchens really do anything groundbreaking. If you must go with one of them, try God is Not Great. I haven't read The Greatest Show on Earth yet, so I can't comment on it. As for outside the Semi-fab Four, A Demon Haunted World is one of my favorite books, if for nothing more than how beautifully Sagan can manipulate the English language.

Edited, Oct 8th 2010 4:43pm by LeWoVoc


I will keep those in mind, thanks.
#13 Oct 08 2010 at 7:43 PM Rating: Good
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In that case, it probably would be a good read for you. It's just the basics, though. The Dawkinite trap I refer to is the tendency of people that *just* read the God Delusion to consider themselves experts on religious matters and end up being just as stubborn as the religious nuts they're complaining about.
#14 Oct 08 2010 at 8:01 PM Rating: Excellent
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LeWoVoc wrote:
In that case, it probably would be a good read for you. It's just the basics, though. The Dawkinite trap I refer to is the tendency of people that *just* read the God Delusion to consider themselves experts on religious matters and end up being just as stubborn as the religious nuts they're complaining about.


Odd. Admittedly I will have to listen to more, but it would seem to me that anyone reading TGD to become 'an expert on religious matters' is largely missing the point. I don't need to be an 'expert' on, say, Jesus, to know that worshiping him is as foolish as worshiping, say Ceasar or Buddah, or anyone else who has been dead for centuries.

In any case, I don't intend to stop with TGD, but to read, as mentioned, Greatest Show, Blind Watchmaker, and Selfish Gene at the very least, as well as your suggested "God is Not Great" and maybe others by, what did you call them? "The Four Horsemen"? Not familiar with the term, but you mentioned Harris and Hitchens in addition to Dawkins. Who is #4?

Editing in a marginally relevant bonus haiku (to stay in practice):

To say God is dead,
not really appropriate;
For He never was.


Edited, Oct 8th 2010 10:43pm by ShadorVIII
#15 Oct 08 2010 at 8:28 PM Rating: Good
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Princess ShadorVIII wrote:
LeWoVoc wrote:
In that case, it probably would be a good read for you. It's just the basics, though. The Dawkinite trap I refer to is the tendency of people that *just* read the God Delusion to consider themselves experts on religious matters and end up being just as stubborn as the religious nuts they're complaining about.


Odd. Admittedly I will have to listen to more, but it would seem to me that anyone reading TGD to become 'an expert on religious matters' is largely missing the point. I don't need to be an 'expert' on, say, Jesus, to know that worshiping him is as foolish as worshiping, say Ceasar or Buddah, or anyone else who has been dead for centuries.

In any case, I don't intend to stop with TGD, but to read, as mentioned, Greatest Show, Blind Watchmaker, and Selfish Gene at the very least, as well as your suggested "God is Not Great" and maybe others by, what did you call them? "The Four Horsemen"? Not familiar with the term, but you mentioned Harris and Hitchens in addition to Dawkins. Who is #4?
Daniel Dennett. He kind of gets left out because he's very boring, but he has a few nice ideas worth reading into.
#16 Oct 09 2010 at 1:36 AM Rating: Decent
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Atheists are adorable.
#17 Oct 09 2010 at 2:17 AM Rating: Default
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Paskil wrote:
Atheists are adorable.
Although he was talking about kids, I think the statement stands: "[They].. are like any other group of people: a few winners...a whole lot of losers." - George Carlin
#18 Oct 09 2010 at 3:11 AM Rating: Good
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Timelordwho wrote:
The One and Only Poldaran wrote:
Timelordwho wrote:
Play alpha centauri, read the quotes.

What?

One of these days, someone needs to write a philosophy book solely based on the different quotes from Alpha Centauri.


You mean, this?
DOes that really focus on the philosophies, though? It sounds more like a story than what I was thinking.
#19 Oct 09 2010 at 6:20 PM Rating: Good
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A bit of both, really.
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#20 Oct 09 2010 at 11:27 PM Rating: Good
You can skip Dawkins, he's a douche. Anything you need to know about the life, the universe, & everything can be found in Carl Sagan's Cosmos.

Edited, Oct 10th 2010 1:28am by Omegavegeta
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#21 Oct 09 2010 at 11:30 PM Rating: Good
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Omegavegeta wrote:
You can skip Dawkins, he's a douche. Anything you need to know about the life, the universe, & everything can be found in Carl Sagan's Cosmos.

Edited, Oct 10th 2010 1:28am by Omegavegeta
There's no reason to skip Dawkins so long as you realize what he is. I can't say I disagree with the Cosmos recommendation, though. Sagan's much, much, more up my aisle.
#22 Oct 10 2010 at 5:39 AM Rating: Good
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Omegavegeta wrote:
You can skip Dawkins, he's a douche. Anything you need to know about the life, the universe, & everything can be found in Carl Sagan's Cosmos.

Edited, Oct 10th 2010 1:28am by Omegavegeta


I expect I'll get to Sagan, too, but why all the hate for Dawkins? I rather like his militant athiesm.
#23 Oct 10 2010 at 10:16 AM Rating: Good
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Princess ShadorVIII wrote:
Omegavegeta wrote:
You can skip Dawkins, he's a douche. Anything you need to know about the life, the universe, & everything can be found in Carl Sagan's Cosmos.

Edited, Oct 10th 2010 1:28am by Omegavegeta


I expect I'll get to Sagan, too, but why all the hate for Dawkins? I rather like his militant athiesm.
He's made a big deal every time he talks about atheism to bring evolution into it. For the religious right in this country, that means evolution = atheism. It's hurting the very cause he set out to help.
#24 Oct 10 2010 at 10:28 AM Rating: Decent
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LeWoVoc wrote:
Princess ShadorVIII wrote:
Omegavegeta wrote:
You can skip Dawkins, he's a douche. Anything you need to know about the life, the universe, & everything can be found in Carl Sagan's Cosmos.

Edited, Oct 10th 2010 1:28am by Omegavegeta


I expect I'll get to Sagan, too, but why all the hate for Dawkins? I rather like his militant athiesm.
He's made a big deal every time he talks about atheism to bring evolution into it. For the religious right in this country, that means evolution = atheism. It's hurting the very cause he set out to help.


By telling the truth? It is completely illogical, irrational, and ignorant to truely grasp evolution and still cling to belief in God. If people's ignorant and limited minds are offended by that, that's their problem. Creating some half-assed comprimise like God-guided evolution helps no one. It only serves to perpetuate ignorance and superstition that humanity is long due to shed itself of.
#25 Oct 10 2010 at 11:52 AM Rating: Good
Princess ShadorVIII wrote:
It is completely illogical, irrational, and ignorant to truely grasp evolution and still cling to belief in God. If people's ignorant and limited minds are offended by that, that's their problem. Creating some half-assed comprimise like God-guided evolution helps no one. It only serves to perpetuate ignorance and superstition that humanity is long due to shed itself of.


Yeah, no. You sound like an asshole. I'm glad you found your spiritual calling in atheism, but to become rude and belittle people who think differently than you do in order to support your opinion, that smacks of a self-conscious fear of being wrong.

#26 Oct 10 2010 at 11:56 AM Rating: Decent
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Really? I guess we shouldn't make fun of people who think the earth is flat, either?
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