lol Trump now says he just "misspoke" at the summit and totally accepted the findings of the intelligence agency. You know, because "I believe Putin!" is just a slip of the tongue.
What a fucking pathetic coward. Too craven to stand up to Putin face to face then runs home and cries that everyone had him all wrong. No wonder Putin wanted him in office; he's a first class tool.
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
I'm just waiting for him to go on twitter later and deny he ever said it and then blame the media.
But yeah, that's not surprising, he has a long history of saying dumb **** to draw media attention. Still waiting for that wall built with Mexican money while we're on the subject.
But yeah, that's not surprising, he has a long history of saying dumb **** to draw media attention. Still waiting for that wall built with Mexican money while we're on the subject.
That monster in the mirror, he just might be you. -Grover
So from what I am gathering.. people are outraged at this because Trump was supposed to publicly "go hard" or something on Putin to his face? "Tear. Down. This... ????"
Are we lifting sanctions or something? or did we WANT him to approach a hostile superpower with his usual ******** bravado?
New York Daily News has a picture of Trump shooting Uncle Sam in the head while holding Putin's hand....
People comparing this to Kristalnacht? Selling it a bit hard aren't we?
The truth is this will be forgotten in a week. (Barring Russia invading more sovereign territories)
Edited, Jul 17th 2018 5:03pm by Kelvyquayo
Are we lifting sanctions or something? or did we WANT him to approach a hostile superpower with his usual ******** bravado?
New York Daily News has a picture of Trump shooting Uncle Sam in the head while holding Putin's hand....
People comparing this to Kristalnacht? Selling it a bit hard aren't we?
The truth is this will be forgotten in a week. (Barring Russia invading more sovereign territories)
Edited, Jul 17th 2018 5:03pm by Kelvyquayo
Kelvyquayo wrote:
So from what I am gathering.. people are outraged at this because Trump was supposed to publicly "go hard" or something on Putin to his face?
(1) Why would you even hold a "summit" with the leader of a hostile nation that was and is engaging in cyber warfare to affect our elections?
(2) But if you are, you're going to at least confront him about it, right?
(3) Ok, so if you don't want to confront him, you're going to just not make it a point right?
(4) ...you're going to publicly throw your intelligence agencies under the bus and say you believe said hostile leader over them?
(5) After a bunch of tweets and several interviews and thirty hours after the fact you're going to say you misspoke? Uh, sure.
Like the N. Korea summit, it was an example of the other leader getting everything while America is made a fool. Kim got a spot on the world stage and got Trump to turn on S.Korea in exchange for promising nothing new. Putin got Trump to publicly exonerate him and humiliate Trump's own intelligence agencies. This is on the tail of Trump lambasting our allies for supposedly not meeting spending goals -- when the goals set years ago are for four years from now. So much winning!
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
Won't be long until conservatives start "asking questions" about all this. Yep.
George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
It's just really weird having the Democrats more hawkish and Trump supporters saying things like "give peace a chance." It's like 50 years of stereotypes all upended.
That monster in the mirror, he just might be you. -Grover
I wouldn't call Democrats hawkish...avoiding nuclear war is a good thing, but not by kowtowing to Russia. There must be some sort of happy medium.
publiusvarus wrote:
we all know liberals are well adjusted american citizens who only want what's best for society. While conservatives are evil money grubbing scum who only want to sh*t on the little man and rob the world of its resources.
Yeah, probably not the best word. Adversarial or confrontational perhaps? Still a weird situation.
That monster in the mirror, he just might be you. -Grover
I think even a private confrontation and no public joint statement would be fine. There's a big wide range of options between "Declare nuclear war" and "Publicly exonerate Putin and say that the unanimous conclusion of your various intelligence agencies is garbage."
Trump's "hostage statement" (as it seems everyone is calling his awkward remarks yesterday) is, of course, a joke seeing as how he's been refusing to acknowledge these findings for ages now. Plus his slipped in "Oh sure, I believe them when they say it's Russia... ooooorrr maybe someone else! Could be anyone!"
The really sad part is that Rosenstein supposedly asked Trump if he wanted the indictments announced before or after the summit and Trump himself said before because he thought it'd give him a stronger hand against Putin. Any weaker of a performance from Trump and we'd be annexed by now.
Trump's "hostage statement" (as it seems everyone is calling his awkward remarks yesterday) is, of course, a joke seeing as how he's been refusing to acknowledge these findings for ages now. Plus his slipped in "Oh sure, I believe them when they say it's Russia... ooooorrr maybe someone else! Could be anyone!"
The really sad part is that Rosenstein supposedly asked Trump if he wanted the indictments announced before or after the summit and Trump himself said before because he thought it'd give him a stronger hand against Putin. Any weaker of a performance from Trump and we'd be annexed by now.
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
Hell, for all we know trump agreed to give back Alaska.
publiusvarus wrote:
we all know liberals are well adjusted american citizens who only want what's best for society. While conservatives are evil money grubbing scum who only want to sh*t on the little man and rob the world of its resources.
Yeah his hand-waving the statements away was insulting at best. I'm going to need a better reason for not trusting intelligence agencies than the "they've lied and been wrong before" explanation I see tossed around Conservative circles; especially when the alternative is trusting a politician not to lie.
(on the off-chance you meant that seriously) I mean I dislike Trump as much as the next person, but Russia taking over is about as likely as losing the country to the illegal immigrants wading across the river. They have a hard time being the dominate foreign power in countries along their border, much less projecting power halfway around the world.
Jophiel wrote:
Any weaker of a performance from Trump and we'd be annexed by now.
(on the off-chance you meant that seriously) I mean I dislike Trump as much as the next person, but Russia taking over is about as likely as losing the country to the illegal immigrants wading across the river. They have a hard time being the dominate foreign power in countries along their border, much less projecting power halfway around the world.
That monster in the mirror, he just might be you. -Grover
In the wise words of a cartoon rooster, "Ah, that there was what they call a joke, son. A joke!"
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
Besides, I said "annexed", not "militarily conquered". Trump would just sign us over to prove to Putin what a great negotiator he is.
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
Nah, figured as much. Have come across some more panicky people assert that seriously in the last couple of days, so figured it wouldn't hurt just to make sure you weren't going off the deep end or anything. 
People are weird though.
People are weird though.
That monster in the mirror, he just might be you. -Grover
If anybody was going to invade us, it's the Chinese, right?
publiusvarus wrote:
we all know liberals are well adjusted american citizens who only want what's best for society. While conservatives are evil money grubbing scum who only want to sh*t on the little man and rob the world of its resources.
Debalic wrote:
If anybody was going to invade us, it's the Chinese, right?
With Chinpokomon?
Can't sleep, clown will eat me.
TirithRR wrote:
Debalic wrote:
If anybody was going to invade us, it's the Chinese, right?
With Chinpokomon?
...not quite.
publiusvarus wrote:
we all know liberals are well adjusted american citizens who only want what's best for society. While conservatives are evil money grubbing scum who only want to sh*t on the little man and rob the world of its resources.
And there it is: now the White House is having to think about whether it will turn over a former diplomat to Russia for a warm little chat.
You know, just sit down and consider all the options. Have a good think. Really sit with it for a bit.
Because that's who we are now, apparently.
You know, just sit down and consider all the options. Have a good think. Really sit with it for a bit.
Because that's who we are now, apparently.
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
People are sputtering about "Well, was Trump supposed to just start a war?" but, ya know, there's this whole discipline of statecraft called "diplomacy" which exists for exactly this reason. Except, of course, Trump decided that he didn't need them fancy-talkin' college people and the State Department is a shell of itself with upper tier career diplomats and analysts leaving in droves.
Trump likes to think of himself as tough but the toughest thing he does is call people names on Twitter and stiff hotel drywall contractors then threaten to sue if they complain. A guy like Putin eats him for lunch. To Putin, Trump is just another soft, aging oligarch with a trophy wife and an obsequious streak and Putin has tons of those guys under his thumb already.
Edited, Jul 18th 2018 8:28pm by Jophiel
Trump likes to think of himself as tough but the toughest thing he does is call people names on Twitter and stiff hotel drywall contractors then threaten to sue if they complain. A guy like Putin eats him for lunch. To Putin, Trump is just another soft, aging oligarch with a trophy wife and an obsequious streak and Putin has tons of those guys under his thumb already.
Edited, Jul 18th 2018 8:28pm by Jophiel
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
Debalic wrote:
****, for all we know trump agreed to give back Alaska.
Hmm, if as part of the deal Russia has to keep Sarah Palin, I'm OK with this.
someproteinguy wrote:
Russia taking over is about as likely as losing the country to the illegal immigrants wading across the river.
Edited, Jul 19th 2018 9:25am by lolgaxe
George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
someproteinguy wrote:
Yeah, probably not the best word. Adversarial or confrontational perhaps? Still a weird situation.
That question on what to do about bullies, preemptive-this, involvement in-that... seems to have no real answer.. if I try to consider it rationally...
I recall years ago.. I watched a video about Darfur factions slaughtering.. etc.. and I immediately would exclaim "WHY don't we do something!?" really missing the boat on everything involved with simply "declaring war" if western countries even 'declare war' anymore rather than giving it some diplomatic name.. The fact is (as I see it) there is no noble way to go to war.. due simply to the fact that there will always be vultures of corruption... same, perhaps I would say no noble way to go to politics.. maybe..
So in case with DPRK.. What can you do? Where do you draw the line between diplomacy and war? I suppose those questions are beyond my paygrade.. and has been a game played by rulers and leaders since the beginning...
In the case of Russia... (I believe economically on par with Italy?) They invade their neighbor under a smoke screen of propaganda... What can you do?
Is it "Well.. they owned it once before.. so it's no big deal" or "it's really none of our business"
Real question is what would a war with Russian actually look like... or what is the actual Roughest thing we could do... Hack them harder than they hack us? That's already been going on.
Proxy war with their associates to denigrate their influence..That's nothing new....
If I were to think positive I would think things went on behind closed doors that were positive and Trump is some secret magic talker and has only made Putin believe that he has one anything or that Putin's performance was just an act....
But honestly I have to think that Trump is an American business moogle(kupo!).. and Putin is an ex-KGB agent of the highest caliber.... so.. yeah...
But if anything it does bring up a larger problem.....
There are some world problems that probably should not be ignored or band-aided.. Perhaps Trump here is just picking scabs...
and yeah.. all this backpedaling wishy-washy bs is really making him seem utterly un-nerved....
But I still think it's really nothing new.
What do we think Hilary or Bernie would do? ( mean Russian situation in general.. I can't imagine them in THIS situation)
For Trump, I think this he does not, cannot, or will not listen to his advisers.... he probably said "Just let me go in and talk to him.. just watch.." while his advisers shrieked in horror... and Putin, old Souless-Eyes himself... just said "Talk You To Hend". I see no evidence to think otherwise.. Though I still think it's ultimately pointless and will be forgotten.. Supporters are going to make excuses and everyone else will just have another drop of fuel to their fire...
Fun times.
<The REAL WAR is my browser with this SITE!>
Edited, Jul 19th 2018 12:02pm by Kelvyquayo
If Clinton (or Sanders or Rubio or Cruz or Jeb! or basically anyone else) were president and were told that Russia was trying to interfere in our elections, they would tell Putin (via diplomatic channels first) "We know you're doing this, stop it", slap some sort of punitive action on it (sanctions, locked bank accounts, etc), threaten further actions and put the appropriate agencies into gear on securing the systems.
We actually have placed sanctions on Russia as a result of their 2016 meddling but Trump is desperate to get Russia out from under those leading to one of the rare events of actual Republican spine where they passed a bipartisan effort to restrict Trump's ability to life them.
The primary issue here is that Trump feels threatened by the plain fact that Russian interference casts a shadow over the legitimacy of his presidency. I'm not saying "So now we get a do-over" or anything just that history will remember him as the guy who got in at least partially because of hostile interference from Putin. So he's more afraid of that and really wants to deny that anything happened then he is willing to step up ,be honest about it and work to prevent it in the future. Putin knows this and is taking full advantage of it.
We actually have placed sanctions on Russia as a result of their 2016 meddling but Trump is desperate to get Russia out from under those leading to one of the rare events of actual Republican spine where they passed a bipartisan effort to restrict Trump's ability to life them.
The primary issue here is that Trump feels threatened by the plain fact that Russian interference casts a shadow over the legitimacy of his presidency. I'm not saying "So now we get a do-over" or anything just that history will remember him as the guy who got in at least partially because of hostile interference from Putin. So he's more afraid of that and really wants to deny that anything happened then he is willing to step up ,be honest about it and work to prevent it in the future. Putin knows this and is taking full advantage of it.
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
Kelvyquayo wrote:
Perhaps Trump here is just picking scabs...
At this point, since very little substantial seems to come from these meetings, I'm left assuming it's just theater for everyone's domestic audiences. Putin gets to project power internally, and Trump gets the opposing base all wound up for a week or so, until everyone forgets, and he says/does something more outrageous for the sake of narrative control.
Jophiel wrote:
The primary issue here is that Trump feels threatened by the plain fact that Russian interference casts a shadow over the legitimacy of his presidency. I'm not saying "So now we get a do-over" or anything just that history will remember him as the guy who got in at least partially because of hostile interference from Putin.
While we certainly should take efforts to meddle in our elections seriously, I have trouble believing Russia really had a meaningful effect on the outcome of the election.
Edited, Jul 19th 2018 9:55am by someproteinguy
That monster in the mirror, he just might be you. -Grover
I don't think I can disagree with any of that...
But I would (want to) believe that our agencies are already doing everything they can to secure our systems regardless of diplomatic pablum.
Without looking at a list of sanctions (I guess I could find one) How much more is practical? One could equate government backed cyber attack to terrorism since it inevitably targets the populace....
..so this takes us back to the argument of what to do about isolated groups (cells) of which there is no traceable evidence of government backing/funding such as the common Terror Groups operating out of countries..under the facade of being independent.... We did not start bombing Pakistan or Saudi Arabia.. Afghanistan... ummm.. and Iraq.. from whom we didn't fear any reprisals.
The truth seems that indeed the general populace is deathly afraid of Russia.. perhaps just the Cold War generation.. people like me that watched The Day After when I was like 6 years old..
I'm not saying the fear is legitimate.. I don't know if I fear the incompetence of our forces any more or less than theirs...
I'm seriously doubting that any anti-nuke tech is reliable...
A Land War in Asia.... I see a second Civil War at home before I could see that..
But I would (want to) believe that our agencies are already doing everything they can to secure our systems regardless of diplomatic pablum.
Without looking at a list of sanctions (I guess I could find one) How much more is practical? One could equate government backed cyber attack to terrorism since it inevitably targets the populace....
..so this takes us back to the argument of what to do about isolated groups (cells) of which there is no traceable evidence of government backing/funding such as the common Terror Groups operating out of countries..under the facade of being independent.... We did not start bombing Pakistan or Saudi Arabia.. Afghanistan... ummm.. and Iraq.. from whom we didn't fear any reprisals.
The truth seems that indeed the general populace is deathly afraid of Russia.. perhaps just the Cold War generation.. people like me that watched The Day After when I was like 6 years old..
I'm not saying the fear is legitimate.. I don't know if I fear the incompetence of our forces any more or less than theirs...
I'm seriously doubting that any anti-nuke tech is reliable...
A Land War in Asia.... I see a second Civil War at home before I could see that..
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