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#77 Nov 09 2016 at 6:14 PM Rating: Excellent
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I don't know why anyone would be upset over the results, really. It's been pretty clear that a bowl of shit was going to be President since like January. So it's the runny one instead of the dried up one. I can at least take solace in the fact that while I was wrong, I wasn't nearly as wrong as some people when it came to predicting this outcome. And some people made some painfully embarrassing predictions this time.

The whole electoral versus popular rant was fun for the first ten hours, but now it's just annoying. The time for that is in the middle of a term, not after your choice loses. Also need to delete twitter off my phone for a while. It's been filled with almost nothing but Mark Ruffalo and Nick Spencer ranting and whining.
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#78 Nov 09 2016 at 6:19 PM Rating: Excellent
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lolgaxe wrote:
The whole electoral versus popular rant was fun for the first ten hours, but now it's just annoying. The time for that is in the middle of a term, not after your choice loses.


The electoral college is only a problem when your candidate loses. Otherwise it is working as intended. How will you know it's a problem that needs fixing until your candidate loses?
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#79 Nov 09 2016 at 6:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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I don't have a problem with the EC. Supreme Court picks are reason enough to have a valid preference for turd plate A or B.

Edit: We can elect Mr. Grab 'Em By The Pussy, but we can't say "turd" on ZAM? This world is crazy!

Edited, Nov 9th 2016 6:23pm by Jophiel
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#80 Nov 09 2016 at 6:24 PM Rating: Excellent
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I really need to stop poking the bears over on Facebook for giggles. So many sore winners!
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#81 Nov 09 2016 at 6:25 PM Rating: Excellent
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I have no problem with the EC either. All those "Win 270 with 20% of the popular vote" things that come out each year are just absurd.
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#82 Nov 09 2016 at 6:27 PM Rating: Excellent
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Poop is naughty, too.
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#83 Nov 09 2016 at 6:28 PM Rating: Excellent
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Everybody Poops Pussies

Edited, Nov 9th 2016 4:30pm by stupidmonkey
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#84 Nov 09 2016 at 6:32 PM Rating: Good
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Speaking of South Park. Pretty sure the conclusion of it all is tonight.

I think my favorite part of this season has been when Dildo Baggins said to Gerald "How would you like it if someone photoshopped a dick in your wife's mouth?" and his reply was "Oh, you mean my home screen?" as he holds up his phone.

Wonder if characters from this season of South Park are going to be in Fractured But Whole.
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#85 Nov 09 2016 at 6:52 PM Rating: Good
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I thought you were saying that it was the last episode ever...
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#86 Nov 09 2016 at 7:06 PM Rating: Good
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Has the popular vote been officially called? At least she can go out with an asterisk.
#87 Nov 09 2016 at 7:15 PM Rating: Good
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Almalieque wrote:
Has the popular vote been officially called? At least she can go out with an asterisk.

Pretty sure Bill is the polyamorous one.

Edited, Nov 9th 2016 5:16pm by stupidmonkey
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#88 Nov 09 2016 at 7:33 PM Rating: Decent
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lolgaxe wrote:
I don't know why anyone would be upset over the results, really. It's been pretty clear that a bowl of shit was going to be President since like January. So it's the runny one instead of the dried up one.


Yup. This. Smiley: chug

Quote:
I can at least take solace in the fact that while I was wrong, I wasn't nearly as wrong as some people when it came to predicting this outcome. And some people made some painfully embarrassing predictions this time.


I'll take my "broken clock" award now, I suppose. For what it's worth. I think what happened with the polls is that when you spend a ton of effort demonizing, not just the candidate, but anyone who supports him (basket of deplorables , anyone?), you kinda can't be surprised if the result is fewer people saying they support him, even while actually planning to vote for him on election day. In any normal election cycle, that might have been matched with people actually choosing to stay home due to said association (which is kinda the whole point of making the association in the first place), but in this case, there were likely a heck of a lot of people who didn't like Trump at all, but hated Clinton more, and when you add in the need on the right for a Republican, any Republican, to sit in the White House to reverse some of the equally hated Obama executive orders, and then add the whole "need to replace Scalia" bit into the mix, it's not really that surprising that far more people voted for him on election day than were saying they were going to vote for him in the opinion polls.

For a lot of conservatives, this election wasn't about Trump at all, but a need to prevent the court from being stacked with 5 liberal justices, 3 conservative justices, and Kennedy (who rules with the liberal wing on most things anyway), and effectively losing every court decision for the next half century. For that, they're willing to put a clothespin on their nose and vote Trump. Add in Clinton's incredibly poor support among traditional blue collar democrats (like, say steel and coal workers in Pennsylvania, or auto workers in Michigan), and the results start to make a lot more sense. I suspect that a fair number of those blue collar voters were also loath to say they were voting Trump to a pollster, but felt they had no choice if they wanted to continue to have a job in the future.

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The whole electoral versus popular rant was fun for the first ten hours, but now it's just annoying. The time for that is in the middle of a term, not after your choice loses.


I've never really understood that argument. The entire point of the EC is to ensure that the election isn't determined purely by popular vote, but must represent support across a broad geographical portion of the country. When the popular vote and the EC results differ, that's the EC system actually working. If they were always in agreement, there would be no need to have an Electoral College. It's the fact that they don't that is why it exists. Just amazes me that people don't seem to get this.
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#89 Nov 09 2016 at 10:03 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
It's the fact that they don't that is why it exists. Just amazes me that people don't seem to get this.

Literally everyone gets this.
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#90 Nov 10 2016 at 1:26 AM Rating: Good
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That's not why the EC exists though. The largest factor is historical. It exists now because it existed before. Changing the Constitution is fairly involved and people tend not to feel passionate about procedural issues that might have at best a rather mild effect on the democratic process.

What it achieves now is not some old wives' tale protecting flyover states from being ignored. At best it shifts which states are ignored to those that are uncontested. It achieves practicality.

1) If I have a single bucket of 1000 balls, 502 red and 498 blue, then I'd have to count then very carefully to make certain I had found which side was in the majority. If I instead divide those into 2 smaller buckets of 500 each where one has 400 red and 100 blue while the other has 102 red and 398 blue, it's pretty easy to tell the majority in an individual bucket.

2) It also makes recounts less painful. Having to recount Florida in 2000 was a pain. Needing to recount the entire national vote because of a pure popular vote election would be a nightmare.

3) The EC magnifies small variances to produce less contestable results. This disincentivizes challenging the count in most states.

4) A pure popular vote could regularly lead to a runoff election. This lengthens the overall process.

When the EC differs from the popular vote it's a failure of democracy we allow as trade off for the the greater effort required to enact a more accurate system.

Edited, Nov 10th 2016 1:33am by Allegory
#91 Nov 10 2016 at 6:33 AM Rating: Good
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you kinda can't be surprised if the result is fewer people saying they support him, even while actually planning to vote for him on election day.


Less people voted Trump than Romney, this loss is entirely on the DNC, and Hillary.
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#92 Nov 10 2016 at 8:22 AM Rating: Excellent
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Hardly an observation, eh? Any elective loss is because one person failed to turn out as many people (in the areas that matter in the case of the EC). That's, like, how elections work.
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#93 Nov 10 2016 at 9:14 AM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
I'll take my "broken clock" award now, I suppose
Back around February you said that "If it came down to a choice between Clinton and Trump," you'd vote for Clinton because while you might not agree with Clinton on much of anything Trump was absolutely destabilizing and the scary choice. Then a month later you said your principles were more important than party affiliation, reinforcing your statement you'd rather go with Clinton than Trump. How did that go?
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#94 Nov 10 2016 at 9:30 AM Rating: Excellent
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I'm going to guess Gbaji went third party (Johnson), knowing that his vote in CA wouldn't make much difference and not wanting to cast for either main candidate. But I could be wrong.
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#95 Nov 10 2016 at 10:13 AM Rating: Good
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The One and Only Poldaran wrote:
someproteinguy wrote:
I'm sure I'll hear a lot of "racist" and "sexist" and whatnot today from disillusioned Clinton supporters, but I can't help but think they've squandered their opportunities.
They've been using accusations of "racism" and "sexism" in lieu of actual policy arguments for at least much of the year. But they're still trying. Salt is flowing like water on my SJW family's Facebook feeds.
Unlike here, I showed restraint and posted nothing more than a simple change of my FB Header and a quick "Woo! Trump!"

And I think I got uninvited from Thanksgiving. Smiley: dubious
#96 Nov 10 2016 at 10:15 AM Rating: Excellent
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Timelordwho wrote:
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you kinda can't be surprised if the result is fewer people saying they support him, even while actually planning to vote for him on election day.


Less people voted Trump than Romney, this loss is entirely on the DNC, and Hillary.
Nice we're down 10 million voters since 2008. Good to see democracy is alive and kicking. Smiley: rolleyes
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#97 Nov 10 2016 at 10:19 AM Rating: Excellent
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The One and Only Poldaran wrote:
And I think I got uninvited from Thanksgiving. Smiley: dubious

You can "Woo Trump" while browsing 4Chan and eating your microwaved turkey pot pie.
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#98 Nov 10 2016 at 10:20 AM Rating: Excellent
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Also people need to stop blocking the roadways around here. File a permit and march if that's what you want, but blocking the freeway after your candidate loses a free and fair election doesn't do you or your candidate any favors. Smiley: disappointed
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#99 Nov 10 2016 at 10:25 AM Rating: Excellent
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The One and Only Poldaran wrote:
The One and Only Poldaran wrote:
someproteinguy wrote:
I'm sure I'll hear a lot of "racist" and "sexist" and whatnot today from disillusioned Clinton supporters, but I can't help but think they've squandered their opportunities.
They've been using accusations of "racism" and "sexism" in lieu of actual policy arguments for at least much of the year. But they're still trying. Salt is flowing like water on my SJW family's Facebook feeds.
Unlike here, I showed restraint and posted nothing more than a simple change of my FB Header and a quick "Woo! Trump!"

And I think I got uninvited from Thanksgiving. Smiley: dubious
Shame. Watching those two random relatives throwing punches was always decent pre-dinner entertainment, especially since the football games were usually terrible anyway.

Edited, Nov 10th 2016 8:26am by someproteinguy
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#100 Nov 10 2016 at 10:27 AM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
The One and Only Poldaran wrote:
And I think I got uninvited from Thanksgiving. Smiley: dubious

You can "Woo Trump" while browsing 4Chan and eating your microwaved turkey pot pie.
Pot pie?! Bitch, I will cut you with my turkey carving knife. Smiley: laugh

I'm the cook of the family. I can just have my own Thanksgiving. With blackjack. And hookers. And probably a ham because a turkey's too much effort for one person. I mean, I could drive three hours and see the GF, but I have to work that night and she's still mad Romney didn't get nominated. Yeah, try to figure that one out.


Also, I don't really visit 4chan. I do sometimes look at screenshots of 4chan linked on Twitter, though. I'll probably instead just rewatch some kind of fanservicey animu. Or marathon Breaking Bad, which I STILL haven't gotten around to watching.
#101 Nov 10 2016 at 10:33 AM Rating: Excellent
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someproteinguy wrote:
blocking the freeway after your candidate loses a free and fair election doesn't do you or your candidate any favors. Smiley: disappointed

I'm going to guess that Clinton won't be president no matter how many roads are obstructed or not.
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