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#177 Mar 28 2016 at 9:07 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
If he's speaking about something specific to and applicable to astrophysics, no. But if Tyson says something like "I think that space aliens have already invaded our planet and are secretly controlling everything", the fact that he's an expert on astrophysics should not lend his voice more weight.
Let me know when some economic expert discourses on the merits of going on a mica standard and your post will make total sense.[:nutjob:]

gbaji wrote:
If it's an economic theory that is being used to support an economic policy that directly affects me, then yes, I can and should expect a better explanation than "because I'm an expert". And I especially should expect a better political argument in support of said economic policy than "this expert says so!".
I see. "Trickle down" benefits you, so it totes legit. Any other position which might tax, oops, I meant "enslave" you can be discounted out of hand.


That's some deep "logical thinking" on your part.

I stand in awe.
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#178 Mar 29 2016 at 7:09 AM Rating: Good
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Trickle down doesn't benefit Gbaji. He's some kind of code monkey - I confess I'm not interested enough to have remembered his job title - not a business magnate.
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#179 Mar 29 2016 at 7:25 AM Rating: Good
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Kavekkk wrote:
Trickle down doesn't benefit Gbaji. He's some kind of code monkey - I confess I'm not interested enough to have remembered his job title - not a business magnate.
Yeah, not sure what I meant to interject, there. Was typing it in my sleep, I think.
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#180 Mar 29 2016 at 7:35 AM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
If they just say "I'm right because I'm an expert", I put more or less zero weight in what they say.
You expect weight when you say it, and when you insist your "friends" are the experts making you knowledgeable by proxy. Yet, you throw the biggest hissyfit when, as it turns out, no weight is given and you whine about how no one takes you serious or the popular salve of "don't have an answer."
gbaji wrote:
I rely on logic and reason when making decisions.
Begs the question of what happens between your decision making and your posting. I'm sure it's just a coincidence how you tend to hedge, omit facts, feign forgetfulness and ignorance, use convoluted phrasing for simple statements, answer mostly with questions and hypotheticals, and pretty much go out of your way to never commit to those logical and reasonable decisions.

It's probably a good thing no one here has any experience analyzing statements.

Edited, Mar 29th 2016 9:36am by lolgaxe
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#181 Apr 04 2016 at 4:28 PM Rating: Decent
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Kavekkk wrote:
Trickle down doesn't benefit Gbaji. He's some kind of code monkey - I confess I'm not interested enough to have remembered his job title - not a business magnate.


I think you're looking at things backwards though. It's not about a given economic policy/ideology benefiting me. It's about opposition to a "scary" economic policy driving an alternative economic policy that harms me. If, in our fear of evil rich people making money off the backs of the poor, we implement tax and spend policies that make it harder for people to get jobs, and harder for their own earnings to make their lives better, and drive up the cost of living, and devalue the modest savings of the working and middle classes, then I think that's a foolish thing to do.

Discounting that concern via some sort of all or nothing argument is equally foolish. It's not really about the 99% vs the 1%. That's a convenient narrative used to try to make it seem like everyone who isn't uber rich should pick the other side. But the reality is that those harmed most by progressive economic policies are the folks in the middle. The truly rich can weather pretty much any economic policy short of some sort of authoritarian seizure of all property (like say a Soviet style revolution). It's the people for whom the fruits of 40 years of labor is all they've got, and anything that affects the valuation of that "wealth" impacts them and their families to a great deal who are most at risk of harm from things like higher taxes, devalued labor rates via artificially increased minimum wages, and devalued wealth via increased inflation rates which may arise as well. Their wealth isn't a hundred or a thousand times more than they "need". It's maybe just barely enough. Or even not quite enough. Or if they're lucky maybe just a small bit more than enough. Small changes to that can have a serious impact on them.

Those are the people harmed by such policies, so it's quite false to think of this only as "rich versus poor".

Edited, Apr 4th 2016 3:35pm by gbaji
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#182 Apr 04 2016 at 4:44 PM Rating: Decent
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lolgaxe wrote:
gbaji wrote:
If they just say "I'm right because I'm an expert", I put more or less zero weight in what they say.
You expect weight when you say it, and when you insist your "friends" are the experts making you knowledgeable by proxy. Yet, you throw the biggest hissyfit when, as it turns out, no weight is given and you whine about how no one takes you serious or the popular salve of "don't have an answer."


And if the only support for positions I argue on this forum was "this person says so", you'd have a great point. However, unlike most posters on this forum, I take the time to form my own logical arguments for the positions I take. I may *also* point to experts that agree with me, but I always start with a line of reasoning first. And yeah, if your counter argument fails to provide an alternative response to that line of reasoning, I'm not going to take it very seriously.

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gbaji wrote:
I rely on logic and reason when making decisions.
Begs the question of what happens between your decision making and your posting.


Nothing at all. It's not my fault that most people prefer to ignore the logical argument they're presented and spin off onto tangents instead. I can only present the logical and rational argument. I can't make the other person accept or even understand it.

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I'm sure it's just a coincidence how you tend to hedge, omit facts, feign forgetfulness and ignorance, use convoluted phrasing for simple statements, answer mostly with questions and hypotheticals, and pretty much go out of your way to never commit to those logical and reasonable decisions.


And I'm sure that it's just a coincidence that you insist that this is the case, yet fail to actually counter the things I say. Just saying "that's illogical", doesn't make it so. Insisting that's the case, but never actually bothering to show why is more an indication of your own lack of logical thinking, not mine. It's not my fault that you can't seem to follow things like analogy and hypotheticals as they are used in critical thinking. It's a skill that you have to actually learn and develop, and I'm painfully aware that most people never have, and many of them steadfastly refuse to even if given the opportunity.
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#183 Apr 04 2016 at 5:17 PM Rating: Excellent
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Ironic that there's no two people more self-assured of the quality of their posting than Gbaji and Alma.
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#184 Apr 05 2016 at 7:29 AM Rating: Good
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Vizzini wrote:
However, unlike most posters on this forum, I take the time to form my own logical arguments for the positions I take.
So you keep saying.
Jophiel wrote:
Ironic that there's no two people more self-assured of the quality of their posting than Gbaji
You should be HONORED to be on the same forum as someone who is so logical and his ability to critically think is so beyond human comprehension that his mere imagination is more correct and trustworthy than all the facts and figures of the world. COMBINED. We know this because he says so. All the time.
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#185 Apr 05 2016 at 3:36 PM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
Ironic that there's no two people more self-assured of the quality of their posting than Gbaji and Alma.


What's not really ironic at all (more just plain predictable), is that, per usual, the counter to my arguments about minimum wage haven't been to the arguments themselves, but attacks on my mere qualification to make them. So, once again, attack the person, not what he's saying. Which is pretty much standard operating procedure around here. Tighten those blinders just a bit more. Eventually, the world will look exactly as you wish it to!
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#186 Apr 05 2016 at 3:41 PM Rating: Good
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Eh, it's just so ridiculous it's not even worth the effort, since the only person who DOESN'T see the flaws in your argument are you.

I don't need to preach to the choir, and I don't feel like beating my head against a wall trying to show you the numerous flaws in your viewpoint of the world.
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#187 Apr 05 2016 at 3:47 PM Rating: Excellent
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People often respond to your arguments, you just constantly insist that they haven't since that's the easiest for you. That's pretty much stock Gbaji playbook.
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#188 Apr 05 2016 at 4:22 PM Rating: Decent
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Professor stupidmonkey wrote:
Eh, it's just so ridiculous it's not even worth the effort, since the only person who DOESN'T see the flaws in your argument are you.


Which is yet another attack on the person and not the argument. How about instead of insisting that there are so many flaws that it's not worth responding, you.. oh I don't know... actually respond? You might just discover along the way that you don't really have an answer for my arguments.

Quote:
I don't need to preach to the choir, and I don't feel like beating my head against a wall trying to show you the numerous flaws in your viewpoint of the world.


That's terrifically convenient. It's also exactly what someone would say if they don't have a good counter argument.
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#189 Apr 05 2016 at 4:28 PM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
People often respond to your arguments, you just constantly insist that they haven't since that's the easiest for you. That's pretty much stock Gbaji playbook.


Not all responses are legitimate counter arguments though. And around here, very few are. You get that "your mom!" is a response, right?
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#190 Apr 05 2016 at 4:34 PM Rating: Good
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Vizzini wrote:
And around here, very few are.
So you keep saying.
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#191 Apr 05 2016 at 4:37 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
Not all responses are legitimate counter arguments though. And around here, very few are. You get that "your mom!" is a response, right?

Sure. Conversely, you have a vested interest in saying that any given response is not a "legitimate counter argument". In fact, you very often simply dismiss counter arguments as not being legitimate since you lack any decent response.

I understand, of course, that you will stridently disagree since pretending to be the only logical guy and thus the correct one is your entire shtick. It's your tautology: I'm the only logical guy and if you were using logic, you would reach the same conclusions, thus you're not using logic.

Edited, Apr 5th 2016 6:10pm by Jophiel
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#192 Apr 05 2016 at 4:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
Professor stupidmonkey wrote:
Eh, it's just so ridiculous it's not even worth the effort, since the only person who DOESN'T see the flaws in your argument are you.


Which is yet another attack on the person and not the argument. How about instead of insisting that there are so many flaws that it's not worth responding, you.. oh I don't know... actually respond? You might just discover along the way that you don't really have an answer for my arguments.

Quote:
I don't need to preach to the choir, and I don't feel like beating my head against a wall trying to show you the numerous flaws in your viewpoint of the world.


That's terrifically convenient. It's also exactly what someone would say if they don't have a good counter argument.


I'm the only logical guy and if you were using logic, you would reach the same conclusions, thus you're not using logic.
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#193 Apr 05 2016 at 4:59 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
People often respond to your arguments, you just constantly insist that they haven't since that's the easiest for you. That's pretty much stock Gbaji playbook.


Not all responses are legitimate counter arguments though. And around here, very few are. You get that "your mom!" is a response, right?


What Joph Said is a perfectly valid response, and usually the right response.

Also:
I'm the only logical guy and if you were using logic, you would reach the same conclusions, thus you're not using logic.
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#194 Apr 05 2016 at 7:10 PM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
Sure. Conversely, you have a vested interest in saying that any given response is not a "legitimate counter argument". In fact, you very often simply dismiss counter arguments as not being legitimate...


Of all the tings you can accuse me of in terms of my posting habits on this forum, that's the least true. I probably spend far more time than I should responding to counter arguments. I don't just dismiss them, I respond to them with my own counter. Pretty darn consistently. Even when they come from Alma.

Quote:
...since you lack any decent response.


I disagree. I'm arguably the most likely person on this forum to take another person's post seriously and respond to it with my own, serious, thought out response. You may disagree with what I say, but that doesn't objectively make it not a "decent response". Of course, you're free to subjectively label any response I make as "not decent", but then you're doing exactly that which you just accused me of doing. Dismissing the other person's post without actually addressing it.

Quote:
I understand, of course, that you will stridently disagree since pretending to be the only logical guy and thus the correct one is your entire shtick. It's your tautology: I'm the only logical guy and if you were using logic, you would reach the same conclusions, thus you're not using logic.


It's not about me. It's about the content of the posts. If you use logic, then you will arrive at logical conclusions. That is tautological. That does not mean "the same conclusions", though, since differences in assumptions will result in different equally logical conclusions. The problem I have is that often, the responses I get are not logical at all. That's not because I think I'm the only person who can or does use logic though. I'm just looking at the post itself, not judging the poster.

What I find consistently happens is that someone will make a point, I'll counter it, we may then go back and forth arguing a bit, but inevitably, at some point, the other person will drop any attempt at logical argument, and just start making personal attacks. I usually take that as a sign that they've realized they've lost. I get that that person will never admit this, but that's what's actually happening.

I'm sure you would never do that though!
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#195 Apr 05 2016 at 7:21 PM Rating: Good
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Vizzini wrote:
The problem I have is that often, the responses I get are not logical at all.
So you keep saying.
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#196 Apr 05 2016 at 7:46 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
Sure. Conversely, you have a vested interest in saying that any given response is not a "legitimate counter argument". In fact, you very often simply dismiss counter arguments as not being legitimate...
Of all the tings you can accuse me of in terms of my posting habits on this forum, that's the least true

No, it's true. You do type shitloads of words. Those words are almost always you saying "Nuh uh, doesn't count" in various wordy ways.
Quote:
I'll counter it, we may then go back and forth arguing a bit, but inevitably, at some point, the other person will drop any attempt at logical argument, and just start making personal attacks.

Yeah, that's not because "they lost", it's because listening to you say "Nuh UH!" over and over gets boring.
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#197 Apr 05 2016 at 9:16 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
Yeah, that's not because "they lost", it's because listening to you say "Nuh UH!" over and over gets boring.


What Joph said (and sorta what I said earlier)
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#198 Apr 06 2016 at 12:11 AM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
Sure. Conversely, you have a vested interest in saying that any given response is not a "legitimate counter argument". In fact, you very often simply dismiss counter arguments as not being legitimate...
Of all the tings you can accuse me of in terms of my posting habits on this forum, that's the least true.!
HAHAHAHA

No. You hand-wave most counter-arguments so hard I'm surprised San Diego hasn't blown into the sea yet.
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#199 Apr 06 2016 at 7:52 AM Rating: Good
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Professor stupidmonkey wrote:
(and sorta what I said earlier)
I've said it, Smash has said it, Bijou has said it, who knows how many people have also said it. But, you know, his posts are logical, everyone else's are illogical, most likely to take posts seriously, poor victim gbaji, so on and so forth.
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#200 Apr 08 2016 at 4:43 PM Rating: Decent
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lolgaxe wrote:
Professor stupidmonkey wrote:
(and sorta what I said earlier)
I've said it, Smash has said it, Bijou has said it, who knows how many people have also said it. But, you know, his posts are logical, everyone else's are illogical, most likely to take posts seriously, poor victim gbaji, so on and so forth.


Yeah, I'm well aware that there are a number of posters who simply dismiss my posts instead of responding to them with legitimate counter argument. You get that saying "we're not going to respond to you because all you ever post is illogical nonsense" is just as much an illogical nonsense reply as what you are claiming I'm doing, right? Thankfully, there's a pretty easy way for any third party observer to objectively determine who is actually writing logical arguments, and who's just dismissing stuff they don't want to have to respond to.
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#201 Apr 08 2016 at 4:46 PM Rating: Excellent
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