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#1052 Apr 29 2016 at 10:36 AM Rating: Excellent
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Yodabunny wrote:
...it's like watching a bunch of teachers grade an essay on a book that wasn't read.

Well, it's a really boring book.
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#1053 Apr 29 2016 at 10:38 AM Rating: Good
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When they make the Lifetime movie of him I hope they use the Fiorina creepy song on the soundtrack.
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#1054 Apr 29 2016 at 10:41 AM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
Again, you're conflating two very different things. The idea of being fiscally conservative is one thing. The idea that the federal government should only act in areas that the federal government *needs* to act is another. Can you understand that conservatives can pursue both at the same time?
You can't both increase spending and decrease total spending at the same time. It can work if you're actually reducing the role of government, and decreasing the total spending overall, but again, that doesn't seem to happen much.

gbaji wrote:
It's only arbitrary if you don't think that maximizing individual liberty is important. Is that the case? And if it is, then what sort of principle do you think we should be using to define the role of government?
Don't invoke government unless absolutely necessary. Use it only when there's no other means to accomplish something, or when other means lead to a grossly inefficient or otherwise unworkable outcome.

gbaji wrote:
Then by all means argue about spending too much money. But don't support this argument by claiming that the GOP is being hypocritical because their spending violates their small government principles. Because, that's not actually what "small government" is about.
I'll continue to do so as long as I think they're using the phrase disingenuously. They know it means different things to different people, and they'll continue using it because hearing it draws in voters, voters who don't realize they're using to mean something else. They have no real motivation to clarify, because it'll lose them votes, so they're perfectly happy to continue using it despite knowing it's misleading people. So yes, being hypocritical or maybe deceitful. Probably some better word for it in there somewhere.

gbaji wrote:
If you actually allowed the GOP to remain in power for more than a few years at a time, and in more than just one branch here or one part of a branch there, you'd see a massive difference in total spending. It just hasn't happened (certainly not since the adoption of fiscal conservatism by the GOP).
Dude, we gave baby Bush 8 years to do it, and he didn't. There's a point you have to stop lying to yourself about it. If he really wanted to cut spending he would have, he didn't want to, and he didn't do it. Didn't take Clinton that long to draw back military spending. Maybe ya'll should ask him for some tips or something?

gbaji wrote:
What I find amazing about this is that we can see two semi clear examples of that difference just in the last 15 years. The difference between spending increases during the Bush years and Obama years is absolutely massive. And the difference in terms of impact on our debt has been massive as well. It's just not fair to say that they are the same. Is the GOP "perfect"? No. But that's not as much the point as the question "which party will be closer to my idea of low spending?". And that answer is obviously the Republicans.

Do you honestly think the GOP introduces new things to spend money on at nearly the rate as the Dems?

They seem to not mind spending. At least there's no major changes there to make me think they're really committed to it. From what I can tell the two parties are basically identical. The only one in the last 50 years or so that looks like he's cut relative spending to any degree is Clinton, and that'd be mostly because of the post cold-war draw-down of the military if memory serves me right (coupled with a robust economy, in the case of the GDP-normalized graph).

Edited, Apr 29th 2016 10:54am by someproteinguy
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#1055 Apr 29 2016 at 10:42 AM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
Trump is +9 in Indiana in the latest poll. So is Clinton, for that matter.
So what you're saying is Bernie and Kasich are going to dominate?
someproteinguy wrote:
From what I can tell the two parties are basically identical.
Welcome to my world.

Edited, Apr 29th 2016 12:43pm by lolgaxe
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#1056 Apr 29 2016 at 10:45 AM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
The 2013 Senate immigration bill was supported by President Obama and the Democratic leaders in Congress. Looking at that would be a good place to start for the Democratic plan.

Blah, blah Gbaji will claim it doesn't count, etc. Who cares? For people less invested in whining about Democrats, it's a good place to look.
Smiley: thumbsup

Was under the impression it's pretty much been a non-issue on the other side, so wasn't too surprised to see it's not really been developed any over the last few years.
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#1057 Apr 29 2016 at 10:46 AM Rating: Excellent
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lolgaxe wrote:
Cruz picks Carly Fiorina for his VP, stating one of the reasons as she's someone who "knows where jobs come from." I imagine the answer is "not from her." She also has accepted a job offer for a position she has no chance of getting.
Jophiel wrote:
"Allow" has nothing to do with it.
Guess by "small government" what he really means is "totalitarian."
One party is smaller than two parties. Smiley: nod
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#1058 Apr 29 2016 at 10:46 AM Rating: Excellent
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The One and Only Poldaran wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
She also has accepted a job offer for a position she has no chance of getting.
Unless, of course, the Zodiac Killer reappears and murders everyone between Ted Cruz and the presidency. I mean, it's a long kill list, but I bet you hadn't considered that.

And, I mean, it's not like one of the candidates is secretly the Zodiac Killer
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#1059 Apr 29 2016 at 10:56 AM Rating: Excellent
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someproteinguy wrote:
Was under the impression it's pretty much been a non-issue on the other side, so wasn't too surprised to see it's not really been developed any over the last few years.

Well, the 2013 bill was blocked by the GOP House who stated that they absolutely refused to hold a vote on it or take it to conference. So it's not very surprising that there hasn't been much effort wasted on refining it since then. Perhaps after the GOP loses the Latino vote by 60 points this fall they'll give some lip service to actual immigration reform again and someone will dust it off. If so, I bet the new bill will still look a lot like the 2013 one.
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#1060 Apr 29 2016 at 11:00 AM Rating: Excellent
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lolgaxe wrote:
someproteinguy wrote:
From what I can tell the two parties are basically identical.
Welcome to my world.
Its funny as much as people tend to fret about how far apart our parties are, and a global political scale, they're pretty much one and the same. Sadly you just don't get headlines talking about the 95% of stuff you agree with the other guy/gal on. Smiley: rolleyes

Edit: Or maybe not sadly, because that would be pretty boring news...

Edited, Apr 29th 2016 10:02am by someproteinguy
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#1061 Apr 29 2016 at 11:11 AM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
someproteinguy wrote:
Was under the impression it's pretty much been a non-issue on the other side, so wasn't too surprised to see it's not really been developed any over the last few years.

Well, the 2013 bill was blocked by the GOP House who stated that they absolutely refused to hold a vote on it or take it to conference. So it's not very surprising that there hasn't been much effort wasted on refining it since then. Perhaps after the GOP loses the Latino vote by 60 points this fall they'll give some lip service to actual immigration reform again and someone will dust it off. If so, I bet the new bill will still look a lot like the 2013 one.
That's more optimism than I have. Personal guess is more along the lines of Latino's really like them, they were just confused by now much they actually agree with Republican values, and blaming negative propaganda from Democrats for the confusion. Followed shortly after by more heel-dragging and small government speeches.
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#1062 Apr 29 2016 at 11:26 AM Rating: Excellent
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Well, this last time was spurred by the 2012 "autopsy report" after Romney got crushed. One of the major take-aways was "Hey, we absolutely suck at attracting minorities, especially blacks and Hispanics" and some of the GOP Senate actually thought "We should maybe do something about this".

The GOP House has a lot more Tea Party/Freedom Caucus types though and were able to shut it down after it passed the Senate with 68 votes. So I could see the same scenario playing out. Hell, maybe by then Ryan will decide that being Speaker is ass and take the bill up, risking a revolt.

Anyway, Gbaji keeps insisting that the Democrats don't have a plan or whatever because... well, because he's Gbaji I guess. God only knows why he says half the stuff he does. Truth is, the Democrats not only have a plan, they actually wrote it down on paper and then had people vote on it. Wild stuff, huh?
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#1063 Apr 29 2016 at 11:29 AM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
Anyway, Gbaji keeps insisting that the Democrats don't have a plan or whatever because... well, because he's Gbaji I guess. God only knows why he says half the stuff he does. Truth is, the Democrats not only have a plan, they actually wrote it down on paper and then had people vote on it. Wild stuff, huh?
Thankfully, "It's Hillary's turn!" is a simple enough plan for everyone to follow. Smiley: tongue
#1064 Apr 29 2016 at 11:30 AM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
God only knows why he says half the stuff he does.
Asking/bringing up questions makes people appear smarter than they really are. Attention seeking behavior. Basically a kid that's finally allowed to sit at the adult table on Thanksgiving.
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I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
#1065 Apr 29 2016 at 11:40 AM Rating: Excellent
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All the GOP requires for any of it's policies to work is a 1000 year Reich and patience. Utopia is right around the corner if you people would just allow it.

Blacks. That's code for 'blacks'.
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#1066 Apr 29 2016 at 11:42 AM Rating: Excellent
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The One and Only Poldaran wrote:
Thankfully, "It's Hillary's turn!" is a simple enough plan for everyone to follow. Smiley: tongue

What does that have to do with immigration reform?
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#1067 Apr 29 2016 at 11:43 AM Rating: Excellent
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Nexa wrote:
All the GOP requires for any of it's policies to work is a 1000 year Reich and patience. Utopia is right around the corner if you people would just allow it.

Blacks. That's code for 'blacks'.

Nexa

Fixed so it wasn't so obvious that you forgot to log out of Blondie's account.
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#1068 Apr 29 2016 at 11:53 AM Rating: Good
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Heil Drumpf.
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George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
#1069 Apr 29 2016 at 12:03 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
The One and Only Poldaran wrote:
Thankfully, "It's Hillary's turn!" is a simple enough plan for everyone to follow. Smiley: tongue

What does that have to do with immigration reform?
I dunno. Gbaji's taken over the thread so I haven't been really reading much of anything beyond basic skimming. I was replying without much context, really. Smiley: tongue
#1070 Apr 29 2016 at 12:46 PM Rating: Excellent
Nexa
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Jophiel wrote:
Nexa wrote:
All the GOP requires for any of it's policies to work is a 1000 year Reich and patience. Utopia is right around the corner if you people would just allow it.

Blacks. That's code for 'blacks'.

Nexa

Fixed so it wasn't so obvious that you forgot to log out of Blondie's account.


He's why I can't have nice things.

Nexa
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“It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes. But a half-wit remains a half-wit, and the emperor remains an emperor.”
― Neil Gaiman, The Sandman, Vol. 9: The Kindly Ones
#1071 Apr 29 2016 at 12:59 PM Rating: Good
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Charge him a dollar per post franchising fee.
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George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
#1072 Apr 29 2016 at 1:05 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Blacks. That's code for 'blacks'.


Republicans have a lot of those. It's a bit like the myth about Eskimos and all their words for snow, only actually true.
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#1073 Apr 29 2016 at 1:09 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
Trump is +9 in Indiana in the latest poll. So is Clinton, for that matter.

Edited, Apr 29th 2016 11:35am by Jophiel
How long until Hillary officially wins? I'm done listening to news on the Dem side.
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#1074 Apr 29 2016 at 1:17 PM Rating: Good
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Uglysasquatch wrote:
How long until Hillary officially wins?
Last December.
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George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
#1075 Apr 29 2016 at 1:31 PM Rating: Excellent
Nexa
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lolgaxe wrote:
Charge him a dollar per post franchising fee.


I'll make him mail it to me.

Nexa
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“It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes. But a half-wit remains a half-wit, and the emperor remains an emperor.”
― Neil Gaiman, The Sandman, Vol. 9: The Kindly Ones
#1076 Apr 29 2016 at 2:39 PM Rating: Good
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Nexa wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
Charge him a dollar per post franchising fee.


I'll make him mail it to me.

Nexa


Make sure to take the rest of the roll of stamps too.
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