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#77 Sep 19 2015 at 6:11 PM Rating: Decent
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xantav wrote:
angrymnk wrote:
xantav wrote:
Kuwoobie wrote:
I can't even believe there is a debate about this one. What is the tl;dr of what gbaji is saying? That it would have happened to anyone?

They couldn't have just looked the the thing with their eyes and said "Oh, you know, that's not a bomb" and gone about their day? It's like the gun-shaped Pop-Tart incident all over again, but worse.

Yes, he is saying that it would happen to anyone. And because it was a "hoax bomb", the kid had to be detained, fingerprinted, and interrogated. But also because it was a "hoax bomb", there was no need to evacuate the school and call the bomb squad, since they knew it wasn't real. But the kid still needed to be arrested because he might blow somebody up.

Sigh, it did not meet criteria for the "hoax bomb" so there should not be a reaction associated with a "hoax bomb". If you think this incident did meet the criteria ( and the law applies to everyone equally ), we should be detaining, fingerprinting and interrogating a whole lot more people.

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply I believed it. I was just trying to give Gbaji's TL:DR to Kuwoobie to point out the hypocrisy of his position.


I apologize. After talking to Gbaji for so long, I too have become a victim of Poe's law.
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#78 Sep 19 2015 at 8:39 PM Rating: Decent
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Not the most reliable source, but I stumbled upon it when I was looking for new cat/dogs pics

It is kinda cool, but now the pendulum seem to have swung a little too far to the other side. I like balance.

And I am a little jelly about that 3d printer. Cue copycats without media exposure:P

Edited, Sep 19th 2015 10:42pm by angrymnk

Edited, Sep 19th 2015 10:42pm by angrymnk
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#79 Sep 20 2015 at 9:12 AM Rating: Excellent
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A drop in the bucket of Microsoft's PR budget. Nice of them to include the cables.

If it makes you feel better, in four years all that will be obsolete junk.
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#80 Sep 20 2015 at 8:48 PM Rating: Excellent
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Speaking of internet photos proving the clock was super-dangerous, GOP Sweetheart Sarah Palin says that it couldn't have been a clock because it doesn't look like the pencil cases in her house. She proves it by posting a photo of... a retail box of pencils, a craft purse/bag thing, an elementary school style pencil bag, a craft case used to hold buttons that she just sort of crammed a pencil into and finally a pink case that is charitably the closest thing she had to a pencil case. There you go -- it must have been a bomb because a woman who is confused by the phrase "pencil case" couldn't find the exact same thing in her kitchen junk drawer Smiley: laugh

Edit: Someone else helpfully posted a link to a case very similar to the one in the clock photo. Scary suitcase bomb!

Edited, Sep 20th 2015 9:50pm by Jophiel
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#81 Sep 20 2015 at 9:47 PM Rating: Good
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There seems to be a bit of a controversy over whether the clock was really something the kid built himself or whether it was something he pulled out of a vintage commercial model and tried to pass off as his own(likely to impress a teacher, if you're not extremely cynical or paranoid of mind). Whether he did or not has little to do with the real controversy at hand(him being arrested and refused the right to call his parents like that), but it is a bit interesting, nonetheless.
#82 Sep 20 2015 at 10:56 PM Rating: Excellent
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Interesting that the author who is so sure it's that clock didn't just, you know, buy the clock and disassemble it to show what it looked like. Instead he's relying on "It would fit in the case" and "It has an M on it". I don't know if Ahmed Mohammad built it himself (be it from a DIY kit or salvaged pieces or what) and it's pretty irrelevant to the events at the school. Based on stories saying that he's previously won awards for inventions, I find it strange that he would get any satisfaction from dumping a clock into a case but sometimes 14 year olds are strange. Again, who cares. Frankly, dumping a clock into a box is about fifty-million times more engineering interest than most kids show these days so even if he did do exactly that I still don't really see reason to give a shit or belittle the kid for it. He was proud enough to show it off whatever the genesis of the clock so it's not as though he's NOT interested in electronics. Worst case scenario, he performed a case mod; again, more than most kids do.

Frankly, the whole "Nuh uh! He didn't make that!" thing sounds like a combination of either trying to tear the victim down to defend the reprehensible actions of the school/police ("Don't feel bad for the kid, he didn't even REALLY build the clock! (so I guess he deserved it?)") or petty envy at the attention (and products) the kid got after the fact. Attention, it's worth noting, that he wouldn't have received without the reprehensible actions of the school/police. The kid didn't get the positive attention because Facebook or Microsoft or the White House desperately needs digital clock makers, he got it because he showed interest and enthusiasm for electronics and got caught up in a mess because of the insane overreaction school/police.

Edited, Sep 21st 2015 12:17am by Jophiel
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#83 Sep 21 2015 at 6:24 AM Rating: Excellent
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I don't think anyone is asserting it was a GOOD clock.
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#84 Sep 21 2015 at 6:58 AM Rating: Good
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You know what they say, even a shucked clock is right likely to get you called a terrorist twice a day (if you're a bit brown).

Not as often as it might be, of course; it's hard to pronounce the parentheses.
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#85 Sep 21 2015 at 7:52 AM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
There you go -- it must have been a bomb because a woman who is confused by the phrase "pencil case" couldn't find the exact same thing in her kitchen junk drawer.
I found a pencil case in my kitchen junk drawer ... Smiley: um
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#86 Sep 21 2015 at 8:17 AM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
petty envy at the attention (and products) the kid got after the fact.
I honestly think it's more likely that(the message from MIT sticks out in my mind as being reliant on him actually building the clock rather than trying to fake his way), though there are those who disagree.

Also, it's entirely possible someone already brought that three day article up and I missed it because my eyes start to glaze over any time you and Gbaji start arguing politics.
#87 Sep 21 2015 at 8:20 AM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
Edit: Someone else helpfully posted a link to a case very similar to the one in the clock photo. Scary suitcase bomb!

That looks like it would make an excellent case for my e-cig supplies.
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#88 Sep 21 2015 at 9:02 AM Rating: Excellent
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The One and Only Poldaran wrote:

The funny thing about the "clever hoax!" conspiracy theorists is that it's a "hoax" that 100% relies on massive overreactions from the school and police. Had the school just told him to put the clock away or gave him a detention or something, no one would have known about this. Had the police just questioned him and decided "nothing to pursue here" rather than arresting him, this wouldn't have been a story. Heck, had the school evacuated, called in the bomb drones and then said "Whoops, our mistake. Eternal vigilance and all that. No discipline to the kid who just brought a clock for our error" then it would have been embarrassing but not triggered the mistreated kid reaction. Everything between "go to school with clock" and "Get free loot" was completely out of his hands.

(1) Put clock in pencil case
(2) ???
(3) PROFIT!!!

What a clever trickster!


Edited, Sep 21st 2015 10:14am by Jophiel
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#89 Sep 21 2015 at 9:38 AM Rating: Good
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I absolutely agree with you that it's probably people being more than a little tinfoil hatty, but it's also not like we would have been unable to foresee the overreaction being a possibility and it doesn't hurt them much to try for it.

Then again, it's that bit of "well...maybe" that gives us people still certain that "Bush did 9/11".
#90 Sep 22 2015 at 7:28 AM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
Had the school just told him to put the clock away or gave him a detention or something, no one would have known about this.
But Joph, a brown kid getting arrested and treated like a criminal is the exact same thing as a white kid getting two whole days of in school suspension!
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#91 Sep 22 2015 at 6:48 PM Rating: Default
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Jophiel wrote:
I like the links Gbaji picked out. Starting with the second, two girls were arrested for putting an alarm clock into an empty locker with the intent to scare people. But it's the second half that matters: they admitted to trying to scare people.


No. It was a prank. They weren't trying to scare people, and didn't think for a second anyone would think there was a bomb. What they were trying to do was have alarm clocks randomly going off in closed off lockers, so that the staff would be wondering where these ringing noises were coming from.

The point being that just because you don't think something you did might be interpreted as a potential danger doesn't mean that someone else might.

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That's the crieria for a "hoax bomb" that Gbaji keeps missing.


No. Because real bombs don't normally ring like alarm clocks, and upon opening the locker, clearly no one would mistake a non-modified off the shelf alarm clock for a bomb. Yet, they were arrested anyway. For devices that were remarkably less bomb like than the one this kid made. I'm countering the argument that his device didn't look enough like a real bomb to qualify by showing you cases of other devices that didn't look at all like a real bomb, but were still treated seriously by the school staff.

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In the former, a school was evacuated because a student left a lunchbox sitting unattended. That was it. It didn't have a clock in it, or a bomb, we don't even know if it had a lunch in it. Someone saw a lonely lunchbox, panicked and called the bomb squad.


Yup. Again, the point is to get you to realize that something far less bomb like than what this kid made could be mistaken for a bomb, resulting in evacuation of the school, and calling of the bomb squad. So saying "but it doesn't look like a real bomb" is clearly not a counter. He took something that was far far more likely to be mistaken for a bomb than either of these other two cases. So an off the shelf alarm clock or a school lunch box being mistaken for bombs is not an indication of profiling, but a clock deliberately taken apart and its components shifted around and wired up by hand inside a case is?

Complain about zero tolerance if you want, but don't pretend that he was somehow singled out. Kids have been arrested and suspended for far less than what he did.

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Gbaji managed to find two stories that don't cover this event at all. In one, some girls acted with clear and admitted intent, but Ahmed never did.


Intent to commit a prank using alarm clocks, not to planting false bombs. That's a key point you're overlooking. Just as Ahmed's admitted intent was to bring a taken apart clock to school inside a case. That his intent wasn't for others to think what he did could be dangerous (or mistaken for being dangerous) isn't the point. The girls in question never thought anyone would think the clocks were dangerous, just as Ahmed didn't think anyone would think his clock was dangerous.

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In the other, people legitimately thought an object was dangerous but no one ever thought that of Ahmed's clock.


Only because Ahmed was right there, holding the clock and telling the teacher "it's a clock". If he had left that unattended, just like with the alarm clocks in the lockers, or the lunch box (I'm guessing it was an odd looking lunch box and not some Dukes of Hazard style thing), his "clock" absolutely would have been assumed to be the bomb that it looked like, and the school would have been evacuated. That's the point. He should not bring such a thing to school precisely because if he leaves it somewhere, it'll be mistaken for a bomb. If someone sees it in his pack, it'll be mistaken for a bomb. If someone sees it in his locker, it'll be mistaken for a bomb.

The pattern here is that kids often fail to consider how others will perceive their actions, and this can on occasion run afoul of our zero tolerance rules for schools. Again, complain about those rules if you want, but don't try to pretend that he was singled out or profiled. Any kid doing the same thing he did would have gotten the same outcome. Well, except for the invite to the White House, and massive outpouring of support. That only happens when the kid involved happens to align with some protected identity class the left has chosen to care about.

The discrimination and bias (once again) is coming from those claiming discrimination and bias. Sadly, because of such a strong knee jerk reaction to this, it's now become "circle the wagons" for those who had that initial reaction. No one wants to admit that they were wrong, much less that they got played, so they up the ante and deny, deny, deny. It's almost comical at this point.

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Mash them together and you get.... well, nothing that remotely relates to Ahmed's circumstances except for him being arrested.


And this is desperate circling of the wagons. Nothing remotely relates? Really? Um... Except that in those other cases, the kids who did what they did *also* didn't think anyone would think it was dangerous (or a bomb). That's a pretty huge commonality, don't you think?
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#92 Sep 22 2015 at 6:56 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
what this kid made could be mistaken for a bomb, resulting in evacuation of the school
But not in Texas because ___________.
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#93 Sep 22 2015 at 7:09 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
No. It was a prank. They weren't trying to scare people
The article you posted as evidence, in the second friggin paragraph, wrote:
Shannon Farrell and La'Kia Hill, students at South Iredell High School in North Carolina, said they only meant to alarm students by putting two ringing clocks in an unused locker and having them go off at two different times.


Holy shit, you're a moron Smiley: laugh
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#94 Sep 22 2015 at 7:49 PM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
The One and Only Poldaran wrote:

The funny thing about the "clever hoax!" conspiracy theorists is that it's a "hoax" that 100% relies on massive overreactions from the school and police.


In other words, it relies on them following existing zero tolerance rules.

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Had the school just told him to put the clock away or gave him a detention or something, no one would have known about this.


Exactly. So there's no harm if you fail, and lots of awareness/sympathy raised for your cause if you succeed. Kind of a no-brainer, right?

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Had the police just questioned him and decided "nothing to pursue here" rather than arresting him, this wouldn't have been a story. Heck, had the school evacuated, called in the bomb drones and then said "Whoops, our mistake. Eternal vigilance and all that. No discipline to the kid who just brought a clock for our error" then it would have been embarrassing but not triggered the mistreated kid reaction. Everything between "go to school with clock" and "Get free loot" was completely out of his hands.


Sure. But with no risk other than briefly being held and questioned by police (and you "win" if that happens). If your objective is to create outcry and support, the actions taken do somewhat fit perfectly with what you'd do. Something just suspicious enough that it'll get a reaction from school authorities and police, but just harmless enough that useful idiots will yell "It was just a clock!".

Quote:
(1) Put clock in pencil case
(2) ???
(3) PROFIT!!!

What a clever trickster!


Um... Yeah. this article has an interesting take on things. It's more focused on the fact that what he did wasn't particularly inventive or creative, relatively speaking, but he's getting offers for scholarships and trips to the White House precisely because (and only because) he bundled his work in a way that triggered zero tolerance rules by the school/police. What message does that send? That if you're a young kid interested in engineering, the best way to get ahead is to make something that looks like a bomb and take it to school (just make sure to hold on to it, and tell everyone repeatedly that "it's a clock" so you don't actually get charged with a crime though!)?
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#95 Sep 22 2015 at 7:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
What message does that send?
That conservatives are afraid of anyone with a tan.
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#96 Sep 22 2015 at 10:44 PM Rating: Excellent
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So apparently this kid wasn't smart enough to make a clock but was smart enough to predict everyone's reactions from the school to the police to Microsoft's and the White House's and get a bunch of free stuff, helpful should he ever decide to make a clock. Makes sense.
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bundled his work in a way that triggered zero tolerance rules by the school/police

This wasn't the case. There isn't a zero tolerance policy at the school that required them to call the police and there's certainly no "zero tolerance" rule the police are bound by forcing them to arrest the kid. The only thing "zero tolerance" is good for here is trying to lift the blame off the teachers, principle and police who all acted extremely poorly.

Edited, Sep 23rd 2015 12:32am by Jophiel
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#97 Sep 22 2015 at 11:20 PM Rating: Good
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Zero tolerance, or, we're going to bind ourselves to do something stupid but god are we hard for doing it.
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#98 Sep 23 2015 at 7:30 AM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
There isn't a zero tolerance policy at the school that required them to call the police and there's certainly no "zero tolerance" rule the police are bound by forcing them to arrest the kid.
There is, it just only applies to Muslim kids. As gbaji proved earlier, white kids only get a slap on the wrist for doing "the exact same thing."
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#99 Sep 23 2015 at 9:33 PM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
gbaji wrote:
No. It was a prank. They weren't trying to scare people
The article you posted as evidence, in the second friggin paragraph, wrote:
Shannon Farrell and La'Kia Hill, students at South Iredell High School in North Carolina, said they only meant to alarm students by putting two ringing clocks in an unused locker and having them go off at two different times.


Holy shit, you're a moron Smiley: laugh


Funny how you stripped out the second half of that sentence you quoted. You know, the part where it never occurred to them that anyone would think these were bombs? That's somewhat relevant to the topic at hand, right?
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#100 Sep 23 2015 at 9:48 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
gbaji wrote:
No. It was a prank. They weren't trying to scare people
The article you posted as evidence, in the second friggin paragraph, wrote:
Shannon Farrell and La'Kia Hill, students at South Iredell High School in North Carolina, said they only meant to alarm students by putting two ringing clocks in an unused locker and having them go off at two different times.


Holy shit, you're a moron Smiley: laugh


Funny how you stripped out the second half of that sentence you quoted. You know, the part where it never occurred to them that anyone would think these were bombs? That's somewhat relevant to the topic at hand, right?
Insofar as that never occured to the Texas kid as well? Sure.
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#101 Sep 23 2015 at 9:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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Not really, no. Intent to cause fear or alarm is the major difference between those girls and Ahmed. They admit that they intended to cause alarm. Ahmed denies any such motivation and nothing in his actions suggests otherwise.

That intent is what makes a hoax bomb a hoax bomb and not a clock that some moron thinks another moron might think is a bomb.

Edited, Sep 23rd 2015 10:55pm by Jophiel
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