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#77 Dec 19 2014 at 11:13 PM Rating: Good
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Smasharoo wrote:
Again, there are some jobs that are long term project based and can work the way Smash is saying. But the overwhelming majority of salaried positions require that you come into work every work day, sit at your desk, and work. The work may vary more than hourly work will. It will tend to involve more meetings and planning and paperwork and less repetitive labor, but you still usually have to show up, usually between some range of hours, and usually for some number of hours.

Again with this? There is no prestige attached to being paid a salary instead of an hourly wage. It's not a responsibility issue, it's just a way to avoid paying overtime. If it was legal to pay you hourly, and just stop paying you after 40 hours, this is how your work contract would be *instantly*.


Again with this? The evidence of the world around us would seem to indicate that you are wrong. Do I really need to elaborate as to why? This is like trying to explain to a child why lighting yourself on fire is "bad".
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#78 Dec 19 2014 at 11:13 PM Rating: Good
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Exempt from punching a timeclock and only getting paid for the hours you work. Exempt from your employer only scheduling you for 30 hours so as to not have to provide you with full time benefits

Interesting. So all salaried employees are 1 FTE? You should let FLSA know.

You can probably amend the docs you're sending to EEOC about how companies don't have to hire black people.
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#79 Dec 19 2014 at 11:13 PM Rating: Good
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You do get that in the real world most people strive to obtain a salaried position, right? I suppose we can imagine that they are all foolish sheep being taken advantage of, or we can imagine that you are being obstinate. I'm going with the latter.

"We"? I'd guess you are an idiot and noticed that most jobs that paid more than the one you had were FSLA exempt and thus conflated that status with higher salary. I'd say people strive to paid more. The fact that exempt positions have a higher median wage than non-exempt ones isn't a causal relationship, it's largely just that way because it's been codified to prevent employers from circumventing minimum wage laws.

Many high paying jobs require one to wear a suit. Do people "strive" for a "suit wearing job"? Many high paying jobs require a lot of travel. Do people "strive" for "high travel jobs".

So idiotic. I'd be delighted to paid my hourly rate instead of my daily rate. I'd do cartwheels if I could book contracts where I was paid 1.5 times my hourly rate for working more than 40 hours in a given week. Are you insane? Who wouldn't prefer that?

Edited, Dec 20th 2014 12:18am by Smasharoo
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#80 Dec 19 2014 at 11:14 PM Rating: Good
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Smasharoo wrote:
Exactly. But if your coworkers never saw you at work, and you were never at your desk, and your boss could never get you on the phone, and you were otherwise not doing whatever work they hired you to do, what do you suppose would happen? According to Smash, you could just say "I'm salaried and don't have to show up if I don't want! Wait until the end of the year and I'll show you what I did.".

One guess how well that will go over.


Well, for me, I'd get paid and have to refuse more work at a higher rate because I was bored. I assume that if your boss couldn't babysit you they'd fire you? Maybe? Is that the implication? I admit I don't know what it's like to be clinging to the one good job I've ever had relying on my manager liking me for my income. Sounds awful.


Lol! Well, Merry Christmas to you.
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#81 Dec 19 2014 at 11:21 PM Rating: Good
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Lol! Well, Merry Christmas to you.

Thanks! Xmass, really. We don't do the Christ thing. Or Santa, really. My 2 year old calls Santa "The fat snowman". He hasn't really made the connection with gift giving yet.
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#82 Dec 19 2014 at 11:43 PM Rating: Good
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Again with this? The evidence of the world around us would seem to indicate that you are wrong. Do I really need to elaborate as to why? This is like trying to explain to a child why lighting yourself on fire is "bad".

No, it's like explaining to them that loud noise isn't necessary for electricity because they saw lightning and thunder together.
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To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#83 Dec 19 2014 at 11:44 PM Rating: Good
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Gbaji wrote:
It's rare to be salaried and have complete freedom to work whatever hours you want, show up when you want, etc.
I don't think anyone is advocating that.

Gbaji wrote:

Again with this? The evidence of the world around us would seem to indicate that you are wrong. Do I really need to elaborate as to why? This is like trying to explain to a child why lighting yourself on fire is "bad".
What Smash is pointing out is that this is all about the employer saving money. You being on salary doesn't make you in any better job. That is a stigma. I would love to switch to a $100 an hour job with time and half for overtime. It's a cat and mouse game where employees are naturally lazy and want to get paid for doing less and where employers are greedy and want to get more work done for the same amount of pay. This is why so many people favor salary; however, if paid the right hourly rate, without being forced not to work, you can easily benefit with an hourly wage.
#84 Dec 20 2014 at 6:03 AM Rating: Excellent
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Too many scholars on this page.

Make something of yourselves, gentlemen, instead of wallowing in the gutter all your misbegotten lives.
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#85 Dec 22 2014 at 8:27 AM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
The evidence of the world around us would seem to indicate that you are wrong.
You've never let a little thing like that get in the way before. Why start now?
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#86 Dec 22 2014 at 2:11 PM Rating: Good
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Kavekkk wrote:
Too many scholars on this page.

Make something of yourselves, gentlemen, instead of wallowing in the gutter all your misbegotten lives.

Sage advice. Smiley: rolleyes
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#87 Dec 22 2014 at 7:41 PM Rating: Good
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Smasharoo wrote:
"I was completely wrong and know virtually nothing about labor law" is a lot more concise and accurate.

I like to occasionally repost the reminder that as of several years ago, Gbaji thought it was perfectly legal for private companies to discriminate in hiring based on race.
#88 Jan 05 2015 at 6:06 PM Rating: Decent
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Almalieque wrote:
Gbaji wrote:
It's rare to be salaried and have complete freedom to work whatever hours you want, show up when you want, etc.
I don't think anyone is advocating that.


Except the very person I was responding to when I wrote that.

Quote:
Gbaji wrote:

Again with this? The evidence of the world around us would seem to indicate that you are wrong. Do I really need to elaborate as to why? This is like trying to explain to a child why lighting yourself on fire is "bad".
What Smash is pointing out is that this is all about the employer saving money.


No. What Smash was doing is his usual ego ************ where he insists that when *he* earns a salary it means he can show up whenever he wants, set his own hours, and tell his boss what he's going to do, because he's a font of awesomeness, but for every other sap in the universe, salary just means working the same hourly job they were working before, but without getting overtime.

The reality is usually firmly in-between those. Just sayin.

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You being on salary doesn't make you in any better job.


Correct. If you are working a traditionally hourly job, like say sitting at a station on an assembly line attaching the same bolt to the same part over and over, and they decide to make you a salaried employee, it's almost certainly so they don't have to pay you overtime. And yes, in that case, you're getting screwed. But then again, you're working a job that consists of sitting in one spot all day while an endless line of identical parts scroll by for you to attach a bolt to. Probably a good idea to move on from that as quickly as possible regardless of the pay structure.

But, for jobs that are actually traditionally salaried jobs, it's not a *****-over to get paid a salary instead of an hourly wage. I'm not sure why it's such a shock for someone to say this. Do you think the executive is getting screwed by the company because he earns a salary and therefore doesn't get overtime pay? No? Think about why that is.


I think my issue is that when someone talks about salaried position I assume it's an actual salaried position, not an hourly position being paid a salary so as to avoid overtime. If you are offered that, run.


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That is a stigma. I would love to switch to a $100 an hour job with time and half for overtime. It's a cat and mouse game where employees are naturally lazy and want to get paid for doing less and where employers are greedy and want to get more work done for the same amount of pay. This is why so many people favor salary; however, if paid the right hourly rate, without being forced not to work, you can easily benefit with an hourly wage.


Sure. But those competing motivations don't change because of the pay structure. You get that right? The very fact that you get paid overtime means that your employer is going to play games in order to avoid paying you overtime. And do things like trim hours so as to reduce labor costs. There are a lot more games that get played with people's pay when they are hourly. When you are paid a salary, you either get paid your salary, or you are let go. There's no in-between. There is no "we'll just cut your hours in half this month". IMO that stability and income certainty is well worth not getting paid the overtime in nearly every case (exception being the aforementioned hourly position already assumed to work 50-60 hours a week shifted to salary in order not to pay overtime).


Maybe it's just that my experience with salary versus hourly work involves the salaried positions always earning more on net than any of the hourly positions, even with significant amounts of overtime included. It's always a step up in pay. I'm sure it may differ elsewhere, but then maybe you're working for crappy companies and should vote with your labor/feet?
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#89 Jan 05 2015 at 6:16 PM Rating: Excellent
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#90 Jan 05 2015 at 6:43 PM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
I guarantee you that, two weeks later, no one cares.


I'm reasonably certain that someone will care enough to reply. Smiley: tongue
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#91 Jan 05 2015 at 7:05 PM Rating: Good
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I'm reasonably certain the reply you get isn't going to be from someone who is doing it because they care.
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#92 Jan 05 2015 at 7:20 PM Rating: Decent
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lolgaxe wrote:
I'm reasonably certain the reply you get isn't going to be from someone who is doing it because they care.


You're only saying that because you care so deeply. Go you!
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#93 Jan 06 2015 at 4:58 AM Rating: Good
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I don't care...+1
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#94 Jan 06 2015 at 6:44 AM Rating: Decent
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I assume it's an actual salaried position, not an hourly position being paid a salary so as to avoid overtime. If you are offered that, run.

This isn't something that exists. The only reason salaries are paid is to avoid overtime. It's not a status symbol, this is concept you have been sold because you are a giant sucker. Low level jobs aren't salaries *because of federal law* not because they are low level jobs. If Wal-Mart could pay employees $1000 a month for full time work and schedule them for 60 hour work weeks they would do that instantly.

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To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#95 Jan 06 2015 at 5:01 PM Rating: Decent
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Smasharoo wrote:
I assume it's an actual salaried position, not an hourly position being paid a salary so as to avoid overtime. If you are offered that, run.

This isn't something that exists.


I know. And yet, there are idiots who continually prattle on about how salary is a rip off because they assume that there are jobs that are hourly jobs but are paid salary just so the employer can avoid paying overtime.

Quote:
The only reason salaries are paid is to avoid overtime.


Sigh. And yet, amazingly enough, salary and hourly pay schedules existed prior to overtime laws. How can that be? Perhaps there are labor and wage forces out there that aren't dependent on government regulation. Oh wait! Can't talk about those because your ideological goals require that people believe otherwise. Got it.

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It's not a status symbol, this is concept you have been sold because you are a giant sucker.


Yeah. Salaries are paid to managers and higher skilled professionals Smash. For a host of reasons unrelated to labor laws. I get that you don't like to admit this, but that is the fact. And yes, if you are receiving a salary it generally means that you are judged to be a step above those who are being paid an hourly wage in terms of labor value. Not sure what definition of status you're using, but by most people's that means that being paid salary instead of hourly *is* a status symbol. Cause.... wait for it... it represents that you have a higher "status" in the labor market than those who are paid an hourly wage.

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Low level jobs aren't salaries *because of federal law* not because they are low level jobs.


You really believe this, don't you? Wow. Just.... wow.

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If Wal-Mart could pay employees $1000 a month for full time work and schedule them for 60 hour work weeks they would do that instantly.


First off, they couldn't, because no one would work for that salary.

Second off, they couldn't, because no one would work that many hours without extra compensation.

Thirdly, you really do have a blind spot to the existence of labor forces in the market.


Yes. They'd do that "if they could". But your flaw is assuming that it's just government regulation that prevents them from doing so. I get why you believe this, but it's an amazingly myopic view of the issue. They'd pay nothing "if they could". They'd wave a magic wand and make piles of money appear "if they could". That's a meaningless argument to make. Wal-Mart has to pay their employees a fair wage based on the market in which they compete. Else, their employees will leave them and go work for their competition (or, well, anyone else in any other low skill profession since it's not like their any less capable of working at a dozen other jobs instead).


Overwhelmingly businesses pay workers an hourly wage because those workers don't work regular hours or they may not require them to work full time hours or any of a number of factors that prevent the worker from being able to command a fixed salary. Yes. Command. Employers don't choose to pay salary if they could just pay for hours on the clock. Again, I get that you want to pretend this is otherwise, but that is actually the case. Because in the real world, employers do not actually hold all the cards.
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#96 Jan 06 2015 at 9:08 PM Rating: Decent
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Yeah. Salaries are paid to managers and higher skilled professionals Smash. For a host of reasons unrelated to labor laws.

Nope. Exclusively labor laws.

Sigh. And yet, amazingly enough, salary and hourly pay schedules existed prior to overtime laws

Nope, they really did not. The **** would anyone pay the hour unless forced to? Idiotic. Learn anything at all about the history of labor and get back to me.

Edited, Jan 6th 2015 10:14pm by Smasharoo
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To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#97 Jan 06 2015 at 9:12 PM Rating: Decent
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Wal-Mart has to pay their employees a fair wage based on the market in which they compete. Else, their employees will leave them and go work for their competition

Again with this bullshit? That's not and never has been how labor markets work. The US labor system took advantage of *literal fucking slavery* until forced not to by law.

It's exactly, precisely, quantifiably, provably, in-arguably how labor markets work that without a state to regulate a bottom to wages, workers are exploited as slaves or near slaves. Labor forces aren't mobile, rational, or efficient. Not an open question. Your fantasy of how that market should work is entirely meaningless.

Edited, Jan 6th 2015 10:15pm by Smasharoo
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To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#98 Jan 06 2015 at 10:17 PM Rating: Excellent
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Smasharoo wrote:
The US labor system took advantage of *literal fucking slavery* until forced not to by law.

But if you had a bad slavemaster, you'd just go be a slave at the plantation next door.
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#99 Jan 07 2015 at 8:32 AM Rating: Good
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Duh, the only reason people work anywhere is because they totally believe in the product and have options to work anywhere they want at any time.
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#100 Jan 07 2015 at 7:19 PM Rating: Decent
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Smasharoo wrote:
Nope, they really did not. The **** would anyone pay the hour unless forced to?


Um... Because quite a lot of the time you don't want or need someone to work full time for you, or for a full year?

I'm sensing a suspiciously aligned lack of imagination on your part.
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#101 Jan 07 2015 at 7:24 PM Rating: Decent
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Smasharoo wrote:
Wal-Mart has to pay their employees a fair wage based on the market in which they compete. Else, their employees will leave them and go work for their competition

Again with this bullshit? That's not and never has been how labor markets work. The US labor system took advantage of *literal fucking slavery* until forced not to by law.

It's exactly, precisely, quantifiably, provably, in-arguably how labor markets work that without a state to regulate a bottom to wages, workers are exploited as slaves or near slaves. Labor forces aren't mobile, rational, or efficient. Not an open question. Your fantasy of how that market should work is entirely meaningless.


I'm sure this is what your pro-labor professors all told you, so I guess you can't be blamed for having bought it. It's a great example of political ideology re-inventing history to justify itself. I mean, I can't imagine what someone tied at the hip to a pro-socialist pro-labor movement could possibly gain by lying to people and telling them that without labor unions and big government labor regulations, the workers would all be subjected to abject slavery.

And yet, amazingly enough, for most of the workers for most of history, in most of the world (especially in the US, unless you actually were a slave) people managed to survive and prosper despite not having massive government regulations telling their employers how much they had to pay them. See, they did this thing called negotiation. The power was actually in their hands, not the government or the unions. Shocking, I know.
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