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#27 Sep 29 2014 at 1:01 PM Rating: Good
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The problem here is; there does not seem to be a clear line between being a little overweight and being "obese." It's almost like it's left entirely to the eye of the beholder.


That is why the BMI chart is kind of old school/should not be used imo.

At my height and weight I'm basically morbidly obese, my father would be obese, my younger brother is over weight, and my youngest brother who is a few years out of high school (and sports) is now consider over weight.
My mother would also be consider obese/morbidly obese.

I need all the help I can get, my parent's are in their 50s and could eat healthier but do not look too bad, and both my brothers look "normal".

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I'm of the opinion that the majority of the obese are so because they don't try to be otherwise or don't know how to be otherwise; I think those who are running into brick wall limitations because of their body/mental state are a small minority.


I don't think I've fat due to mental issues. Can't say I'm this big because I want to be. I'm just this big. It is a real struggle to lose weight.

I can agree that trying to buy healthier food can cost more. I find it odd, because if no one is buying it then it must be going to waste.
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#28 Sep 29 2014 at 1:22 PM Rating: Good
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Sandinmygum the Stupendous wrote:

I can agree that trying to buy healthier food can cost more. I find it odd, because if no one is buying it then it must be going to waste.

I'm not so sure it costs more. A bag of rice is pretty cheap.

But it does take knowing how to store, prepare and properly store again the unprocessed food. Honestly, it's much easier to buy a value meal than to plan ahead and prepare food - not to mention cleaning up.

The social aspects of food and food culture go very deep...and are pretty interesting.
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#29 Sep 29 2014 at 1:28 PM Rating: Excellent
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Is this going to turn into another thread where we debate the value of a 60lb sack of lentils?

Poverty or laziness or whatever causes aside, the point remains that there is a number of people carrying the "I'm perfect the way I am!" banner. Or, more hostilely, the whole "At least I'm a REAL woman with curves and not some Barbie doll wannabe" schtick.

To be clear though, I'm not implying in any way that thin people don't have it generally better than obese people.
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#30 Sep 29 2014 at 1:34 PM Rating: Good
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I can't even imagine being a large or fat person and flying coach.

Many have habits that if taken to excess are unhealthy. If you're fat it's hard to hide it from the world, and thus easier to judge.

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#31 Sep 29 2014 at 1:34 PM Rating: Good
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Smiley: ducttape.




Edited, Sep 29th 2014 9:35pm by Elinda
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#32 Sep 29 2014 at 1:58 PM Rating: Excellent
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Elinda wrote:
Sandinmygum the Stupendous wrote:

I can agree that trying to buy healthier food can cost more. I find it odd, because if no one is buying it then it must be going to waste.

I'm not so sure it costs more. A bag of rice is pretty cheap.
Just for fun.

1) Go to store
2) Purchase: flour, margarine, sugar and rice
3) ?????
4) Brag on internet.
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#33 Sep 29 2014 at 3:19 PM Rating: Good
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Elinda wrote:
Perception: Skinny women are 'unhealthy', skinny men simply have a high metabolism.
Skinny males are considered to be weak and pathetic; a target for bullies.


Edited, Sep 29th 2014 3:19pm by Bijou
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#34 Sep 29 2014 at 3:40 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
Kuwoobie wrote:
What is "overweight" exactly? Seems anything over size 0 is "fat" anymore.

On the other end of the spectrum, we have obviously obese people who are supposedly "perfect just the way they are". Maybe aspire to somewhere in the middle ground.


"S/he's pretty on the inside."
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#35 Sep 29 2014 at 3:51 PM Rating: Good
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Friar Bijou wrote:
Elinda wrote:
Perception: Skinny women are 'unhealthy', skinny men simply have a high metabolism.
Skinny males are considered to be weak and pathetic; a target for bullies.

Unless they are 6' 5". The tall skinny ones were left alone.

But the short skinny guys in high school were ridiculed for being weaklings, just as often as the fat kids.

Of course, if either of them joined a sport the amount they were made fun of dropped significantly. The bullying I received dropped to almost zero after I joined the football team as a Sophomore. At least, if they did make fun of me the didn't do it to my face anymore.

I still did hear things when they thought I wasn't around or listening on occasion. Not often though.
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#36 Sep 29 2014 at 4:03 PM Rating: Good
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TirithRR wrote:
Friar Bijou wrote:
Elinda wrote:
Perception: Skinny women are 'unhealthy', skinny men simply have a high metabolism.
Skinny males are considered to be weak and pathetic; a target for bullies.

Unless they are 6' 5". The tall skinny ones were left alone..
Yeah, no. I was usually the tallest in my class. Thin as a paperclip, though, with muscles to match.
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#37 Sep 29 2014 at 4:15 PM Rating: Default
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Kuwoobie wrote:
What is "overweight" exactly?

When you jump, do you jiggle? If so, you could lose a few pounds. I personally use the "how much fat can I grab from my side when I stand" test.
#38 Sep 29 2014 at 7:00 PM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
Is this going to turn into another thread where we debate the value of a 60lb sack of lentils?


Of course it is! Smiley: grin


IDrownFish of the Seven Seas wrote:
The money issue certainly is valid. In the US, "healthy" food is usually more expensive than, say, a McDouble.


That's not remotely true though. It's why Tucker is being a jerk the way he's making his point, but he's not wholly wrong. There is an issue with fast food being used as a substitute for home cooked meals by poor people, but that's less an issue of money versus time (insert "lazy poor folks" argument if you feel the need I suppose). It's much more expensive to buy food at a fast food restaurant (any restaurant) than to prepare it at home. So while I wouldn't necessarily make a "poor people are fat" argument out of this, I would point to it as a monumental waste of our food assistance dollars.

Having said that, the valid point with regard to obesity issues is about processed food versus fresh. While the cost comparison between buying rice, beans, flour, fresh (or even frozen, but not-processed) proteins, sauce makings, seasonings, etc versus microwave dinners and other pre-packaged stuff is pretty similar, the health differential between them is vast. It still comes down to time as the primary question with regard to healthy food. A $.99 microwave dinner is much less expensive than a combo from McDonalds, but it's arguably even worse for your health. It's the salts and preservatives and other chemicals (and the food dregs used to make those things) that makes them so unhealthy. But it's much much easier to just pop that dinner in said microwave than to actually prepare and cook a meal from scratch (or nearly scratch) ingredients.

And let's face it, until you get pretty good at cooking (and seasoning), those pre-packaged foods are actually going to taste better than what you'd make yourself (all that salt and bad fats also tend to taste good). So it's not shocking that so many people will gravitate towards them. Honestly though, I think the issue is more complex than just how much things cost relatively speaking. We tend to focus a lot on the dollars and forget that there are other factors involved. I do happen to think that simply tossing dollars at the problem is the wrong solution, but that's maybe a discussion for another day (or thread).




Jophiel wrote:
Poverty or laziness or whatever causes aside, the point remains that there is a number of people carrying the "I'm perfect the way I am!" banner. Or, more hostilely, the whole "At least I'm a REAL woman with curves and not some Barbie doll wannabe" schtick.



Yeah. I agree with this. I think you're right about how we tend to look at the edges of the issue, and not at the middle. I also think that we tend to have a "perfect unreasonable figure or bust" mentality, and that this actually hurts a lot of people (both men and women). I've known a few people who were in good health and shape for most of their lives, but at some point began gaining a bit of weight. They knew it, didn't like it, but couldn't spend the effort to maintain the "perfect shape" that all those diet and exercise programs sport. So they gave up and just accepted being overweight. And of course, once that sort of mindset is accepted, the weight gain just increases. What could have been a reasonably achievable goal (just not be obese) becomes impossible because they don't feel that's acceptable (largely fed by unrealistic images all around us).


Top that off with the bit you were talking about, and it's just easier to accept being fat. I agree that this is a bit counter productive. But on the flip side, it is somewhat hard to tell someone right to their face "Hey. You're really overweight and you should exercise and maybe not eat those chocolate candies all day long". Odds are this will result in them not wanting you to bother them about their weight, and not them doing anything about it. But the alternative is just watching their health deteriorate. Not sure there's a right approach to this.
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#39 Sep 29 2014 at 8:23 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
Top that off with the bit you were talking about, and it's just easier to accept being fat. I agree that this is a bit counter productive. But on the flip side, it is somewhat hard to tell someone right to their face "Hey. You're really overweight and you should exercise and maybe not eat those chocolate candies all day long". Odds are this will result in them not wanting you to bother them about their weight, and not them doing anything about it. But the alternative is just watching their health deteriorate. Not sure there's a right approach to this.


The correct approach begins with the family. My parents were very supportive and caring when I grew up. But they were not strict about diets at all. They would allow me to drink soda (a lot, talking three 20 oz bottles a day easily). I could eat as much as I wanted for supper, and any time I wanted I could grab food.

I'm not saying they should have starved me, nor am I saying anyone should starve their kids, but if they had enforced portion control and limited the junk food in the house it could have made it less likely for me to develop poor eating habits.

If people a good foundation in eating properly, I'd bet they'd be less likely to eat poorly as an adult.

I've gained about 10 lbs over the past two years after I loosen up on my diet. I am still comfortable with my size and weight but I am beginning to watch it again just in case. I'm not really after losing weight at the moment, but making sure I don't gain anything more. And a little bit of light exercise just to try and tone up a bit. Winter is rolling around so I probably won't get as much outdoor activity once the snow starts flying. Majority of the activity has been clearing some land to build a garage. Not sure if it counts as exercise, but it definitely leaves me sweating after working and sore the morning after.
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#40 Sep 29 2014 at 8:46 PM Rating: Decent
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TirithRR wrote:
I'm not saying they should have starved me, nor am I saying anyone should starve their kids, but if they had enforced portion control and limited the junk food in the house it could have made it less likely for me to develop poor eating habits.


Or be poor, with 5 children, but not on food stamps. We drank water, not soda, snacks did not exist in the house (technically, we had popcorn, as in actual kernels, not bags of pre-buttered stuff, we could pop if we wanted), and meals consisted of what was served on the table, so if you were a picky eater, that just meant more for the rest of us (none of us were picky btw, none of that "oh, you don't want X, we'll make you Y instead" garbage kids get away with these days). To be fair to the "OMG Foodstamps make people fat!" bit, most of my friends that had snacks and sodas available to them all the time were much better off financially than we were. But the absence of food stamps in my house growing up (a conscious choice made by my mother given that we certainly could have qualified for them), meant that those things were simply unaffordable. Even if my mom had been inclined to buy them at all (which she wasn't), that bottle of soda would have been purchased at the expense of someone being able to eat dinner. Easy choice, IMO.


Of course, there will always be some people who will make poor choices no matter what the financial circumstances are. Which is why I tend to take a "dollars alone don't define or solve the issue" approach.
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#41 Sep 29 2014 at 9:17 PM Rating: Decent
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#42 Sep 29 2014 at 9:49 PM Rating: Good
Not that it is any of my business, but why would your Mother opt out of food stamps if your family clearly qualified for?

My Aunt is dirt poor. She only has 2 more children who are not 18 yet. Her way of life is going to go even more down when they hit 18 and she can no longer use them to live of the State. Sadly tho, all 6 of her kids have learned that they do not need jobs and can just live of the state...

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Having said that, the valid point with regard to obesity issues is about processed food versus fresh. While the cost comparison between buying rice, beans, flour, fresh (or even frozen, but not-processed) proteins, sauce makings, seasonings, etc versus microwave dinners and other pre-packaged stuff is pretty similar, the health differential between them is vast. It still comes down to time as the primary question with regard to healthy food. A $.99 microwave dinner is much less expensive than a combo from McDonalds, but it's arguably even worse for your health. It's the salts and preservatives and other chemicals (and the food dregs used to make those things) that makes them so unhealthy. But it's much much easier to just pop that dinner in said microwave than to actually prepare and cook a meal from scratch (or nearly scratch) ingredients.


This is kind of where I am at. I know how to cook, but I do not live alone. I sadly still live with my parents (atm it is a good thing). My Father makes dinner, because he gets home first. He has always at at 6pm. That is dinner time. He will make what ever he can that takes less then 30min. The food he buys is not the best in option.
I've stopped eating this food and have started making my own meals. I don't want corn and white flour in every meal, every night. Heck I've been trying to remove any corn-related foods from my life. Just doing this tho makes him angry at me, and it starts up stupid lame arguments (over food).

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The correct approach begins with the family. My parents were very supportive and caring when I grew up. But they were not strict about diets at all. They would allow me to drink soda (a lot, talking three 20 oz bottles a day easily). I could eat as much as I wanted for supper, and any time I wanted I could grab food.

I'm not saying they should have starved me, nor am I saying anyone should starve their kids, but if they had enforced portion control and limited the junk food in the house it could have made it less likely for me to develop poor eating habits.


This was my other problem. Why buy a bag of apples when cookies were cheaper? Sugar-free kool-aid (Crystal light) costed much more then the normal kool-aid that you added a ton of sugar to.
I'm old enough to take the blame as to why I'm still big, but it was not my fault as a child with no job.

Edited, Sep 29th 2014 10:49pm by Sandinmygum
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#43 Sep 29 2014 at 10:12 PM Rating: Good
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Sandinmygum the Stupendous wrote:
Not that it is any of my business, but why would your Mother opt out of food stamps if your family clearly qualified for?
Because it's a fictional narrative gbaji trots out to "prove" that anyone, anywhere can pull them selves up by their bootstraps "just like he did".
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#44 Sep 29 2014 at 11:41 PM Rating: Good
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Sandinmygum the Stupendous wrote:
Sugar-free kool-aid (Crystal light) costed much more then the normal kool-aid that you added a ton of sugar to.
That's because you weren't being creative enough.

Packets of Sweet&Low or Equal are free at restaurants. Edit: And let's be honest. You probably found yourself at McDonald's once in a while.

Edited, Sep 29th 2014 11:50pm by Poldaran
#45 Sep 30 2014 at 3:48 AM Rating: Default
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Friar Bijou wrote:
Sandinmygum the Stupendous wrote:
Not that it is any of my business, but why would your Mother opt out of food stamps if your family clearly qualified for?
Because it's a fictional narrative gbaji trots out to "prove" that anyone, anywhere can pull them selves up by their bootstraps "just like he did".

I wouldn't call it fictional, but its definitely telling. To minimize the effects of money when eating healthy is asinine. I have money and get discouraged from eating healthy when the "healthier" version costs so much more. If the prices at a normal grocery store and an organic store were opposite, I'm sure more people would eat healthier.
#46 Sep 30 2014 at 9:43 AM Rating: Excellent
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#47 Sep 30 2014 at 9:45 AM Rating: Excellent
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I buy organic wine and host.
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#48 Sep 30 2014 at 10:13 AM Rating: Good
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Friar Bijou wrote:
Sandinmygum the Stupendous wrote:
Not that it is any of my business, but why would your Mother opt out of food stamps if your family clearly qualified for?
Because it's a fictional narrative gbaji trots out to "prove" that anyone, anywhere can pull them selves up by their bootstraps "just like he did".

gbaji grew up in Father Knows Best.
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#49 Sep 30 2014 at 10:27 AM Rating: Excellent
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Eh, my mother was the same way. Just a teaching that accepting that sort of aid was a failure. Also, "food stamps" is what the blacks did, dontcha know.

On the other hand, if it was legitimately a question of a 65¢ priced 2-liter of soda meaning a child wasn't going to eat dinner, I can't give a whole lot of Quiet Nobility of Suffering points for refusing aid either. Keeping your children on the cusp of constant hunger just so you can save your pride isn't really admirable.
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#50 Sep 30 2014 at 11:43 AM Rating: Good
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My mom worked at a menial assembly line job so had no time to cook.

Instead we were able to afford processed foods. I probably consumed over 1000 cans of Spaghettio's (the cans with the little weanies added were my fav) before I reached enlightenment.

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#51 Sep 30 2014 at 4:14 PM Rating: Default
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Sandinmygum the Stupendous wrote:
Not that it is any of my business, but why would your Mother opt out of food stamps if your family clearly qualified for?

My Aunt is dirt poor. She only has 2 more children who are not 18 yet. Her way of life is going to go even more down when they hit 18 and she can no longer use them to live of the State. Sadly tho, all 6 of her kids have learned that they do not need jobs and can just live of the state...


You just answered your own question. My mom didn't want to become like your aunt.
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