Forum Settings
       
Reply To Thread

A you trying to make me a feminist?Follow

#652 Oct 21 2014 at 10:59 PM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
Omegavegeta wrote:
I thought it was, actually, unless you happen to be part of the vocal minority that's not representative of most people that plays video games.

Believe it or not, I'm a gamer. I'll be 33 next year and I had a Nintendo at 5 & built my first PC at 16. Not one of the stereotypical "gamer" terms used in that particular article to describe gamers or gamer culture bothered me at all. Some of them even apply to me. Sure, it was a bit mean but given that its a response to gamergate that isn't exactly surprising.

The problem is, I don't want to be considered a gamer anymore. Not because I don't play video games (Currently loving Alien Isolation & counting the days until Civ: Beyond Earth) but because the trolls like the asshole that started gamergate have made it a derogatory term.

I'm not part of that vocal minority and, while I don't really self-identify as a gamer, I'd have no issue with someone considering me one because I have been part of many facets of the vibrant gaming community. If someone can't see past a small fraction of it, if they want to label me as a woman-hating misogynist for playing some video games then obviously that's not a person I want to know very well anyway. I'd like to think that anyone whose opinion I actually give a shit about knows me well enough to assume that I don't support sending death threats or threatening to rape people into silence.

That Alexander can't see any value to the gaming community or any culture to it beyond maladjusted morons with silly hats tells me that she's obviously not capable of writing about the community anyway. If that's all she has been able to take from it and she feels it's some cultureless void unless she and her allies fill it like some Social Justice Warrior's version of the white man's burden then I'd be just as happy if she stayed away from it. She sees nothing but stereotypical basement dwellers where I've seen a ton of other things (already described in my previous post). Very white of her to offer to bring the community her "culture" but I think they're already doing okay without her and people who share that view.

Edited, Oct 22nd 2014 12:01am by Jophiel
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#653 Oct 22 2014 at 12:14 AM Rating: Good
Avatar
*****
13,240 posts
Omegavegeta wrote:
Quote:
Again: You people in gaming culture are a bunch of mentally retarded, socially dysfunctional corporate shills who can't function in the real world or hold real jobs. It's up to us to insert a culture where you have none because, when I look at you, all I see is mouth-breathing morons with Pikachu backpacks waiting to buy the next game if you don't choke to death on your own drool first.

Yeah, real inclusive and uplifting stuff.


I thought it was, actually, unless you happen to be part of the vocal minority that's not representative of most people that plays video games.

Believe it or not, I'm a gamer. I'll be 33 next year and I had a Nintendo at 5 & built my first PC at 16. Not one of the stereotypical "gamer" terms used in that particular article to describe gamers or gamer culture bothered me at all. Some of them even apply to me. Sure, it was a bit mean but given that its a response to gamergate that isn't exactly surprising.

The problem is, I don't want to be considered a gamer anymore. Not because I don't play video games (Currently loving Alien Isolation & counting the days until Civ: Beyond Earth) but because the trolls like the asshole that started gamergate have made it a derogatory term.

A term I'm ashamed to be associated with because of a very vocal minority that can't take a joke, criticism, or foams at the mouth when a feminist points out the obvious about the copious amounts of cleavage in many games.

Honestly, given the current environment on the internet I'm surprised the person that wrote this article about Boob Armor killing or injuring the wearer hasn't gotten a death threat yet. Its Gawker media related AND ruins fanboys fantasies all over the internet at the same time.

Come on Poldaran, you should try and get that ******* lawyer from California to beat the author up for an anti-bullying charity. THAT'LL TEACH THEM!



Whatever community(s) you choose to associate yourself with, there will be bad apples. You really can't escape them. I don't understand why it's a huge thing.
____________________________
Just as Planned.
#654 Oct 22 2014 at 1:23 AM Rating: Good
****
4,135 posts
Timelordwho wrote:
I don't understand why it's a huge thing.


That's what she said! BOOM! Smiley: waycool

Edited, Oct 22nd 2014 12:23am by stupidmonkey
____________________________
Dandruffshampoo wrote:
Curses, beaten by Professor stupidopo-opo.
Annabella, Goblin in Disguise wrote:
Stupidmonkey is more organized than a bag of raccoons.
#655 Oct 22 2014 at 5:48 AM Rating: Good
Avatar
*****
13,240 posts
Professor stupidmonkey wrote:
Timelordwho wrote:
I don't understand why it's a huge thing.


That's what she said! BOOM! Smiley: waycool

____________________________
Just as Planned.
#656 Oct 22 2014 at 7:35 AM Rating: Good
*******
50,767 posts
Timelordwho wrote:
Whatever community(s) you choose to associate yourself with, there will be bad apples.
You're just bad produce shaming.
____________________________
George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
#657 Oct 22 2014 at 7:56 AM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
I'm just surprised that someone who is supposedly a "gaming culture writer" wouldn't go with "Gaming culture is awesome and has tons of great things going on in it with intelligent people. Don't let a select group of knucklefucks define it" but rather "Gaming is a wasteland devoid of culture except for some tards arguing on the internet and making 'arrow in the knee' jokes in between buying collectors edition boxes".

I'll take it on faith that she said what she believed. Which doesn't say to me "Gaming needs culture" but rather "This woman needs a different job".
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#658 Oct 22 2014 at 8:19 AM Rating: Good
*******
50,767 posts
Jophiel wrote:
I'm just surprised that someone who is supposedly a "gaming culture writer" wouldn't go with [...]
One, "gaming culture writer" is just slightly more ridiculous than "gaming journalist." Second, I'm not surprised. There's a built in audience for blind justice on both sides of the aisle.
____________________________
George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
#659 Oct 22 2014 at 8:35 AM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
I'm not saying I have deep respect for the field of "gaming culture writing", but I'd expect less hostility towards your supposed field. I suppose I don't have an argument about your second point, though. This whole thing has shown that there's plenty of people/organizations on both sides happy to capitalize on it for their own gain.
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#660 Oct 22 2014 at 8:41 AM Rating: Good
Avatar
*****
13,240 posts
Jophiel wrote:
I'm just surprised that someone who is supposedly a "gaming culture writer" wouldn't go with "Gaming culture is awesome and has tons of great things going on in it with intelligent people. Don't let a select group of knucklefucks define it" but rather "Gaming is a wasteland devoid of culture except for some tards arguing on the internet and making 'arrow in the knee' jokes in between buying collectors edition boxes".

I'll take it on faith that she said what she believed. Which doesn't say to me "Gaming needs culture" but rather "This woman needs a different job".


How much enthusiasm would that generate? How many page views, how much ad revenue?

Trolling has been monetized.

____________________________
Just as Planned.
#661 Oct 22 2014 at 8:58 AM Rating: Excellent
I don't think she's wrong describing "gaming culture" & its origins as they are/were & taking to task the developers of games & webmasters of gaming sites for appeasing that loud vocal minority. She even says "we all" should be better than this & questions just what it is she has been doing.

Quote:
Game websites with huge community hubs whose fans are often associated with blunt Twitter hate mobs sort of shrug, they say things like ‘we delete the really bad stuff, what else can we do’ and ‘those people don’t represent our community’ -- but actually, those people do represent your community. That’s what your community is known for, whether you like it or not.


While a website can't be responsible for what it's users do, if they allow there users to spew hate on their site they bear some responsibility.

Lets look at Reddit, for example. /r/KotakuInAction is the biggest pro-gamergate board on the site & is mostly civil. However, it shares a moderator with r/breakfeminazis which is "A Fantasy BDSM Subreddit devoted to a Supervillian who enslaves, degrades, and humiliates Feminist Superheroines to teach them their place as women".

Here is an article on that. It is not a fun read.

While I think "men's rights" advocates are just about as stupid as racists, any sort of "legitimacy" that issue may have (even if I think it has close to zero) goes out the window when viewed through the lens of that particular subreddit. While /r/KotakuInAction is relatively civil, any legitimacy it may have comes into question when its moderator moderates mens rights advocates' rape subreddits at the same time.

Edited, Oct 22nd 2014 11:00am by Omegavegeta
____________________________
"The Rich are there to take all of the money & pay none of the taxes, the middle class is there to do all the work and pay all the taxes, and the poor are there to scare the crap out of the middle class." -George Carlin


#662 Oct 22 2014 at 9:20 AM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
Omegavegeta wrote:
I don't think she's wrong describing "gaming culture" & its origins as they are/were

Really? So all those things I listed before? They don't matter? Just a bunch social incompetants waiting to buy the next game and they don't even know why?
I previously wrote:
Not the benign banter between gamers on the internet or MMORPG guilds that last for years and inspire real-life meetings or modding communities or indie game jams or fan art communities or long discussions about the ending of Bioshock Infinite or Spec Ops: The Line or the umpteen charity drives or the enormous Let's Play community or any of the rest of it?

I've made friends playing games. I've participated in great gaming communities. I've had people create fantastic art for me just because they liked a character I designed. I saw a guy code a program to take people's City of Heroes character costume data and turn it into data for 3D printing so people could have tangible reminders once the game shut down. I've seen people donate shittons of games for charity raffles. I've given away hardware to people so they could play games. I've been part of very entertaining guilds. I could go on and on. That's what I think of when I think of "gaming culture". Not the sad view she holds and you seem to agree with.

Well, I guess that's an impasse we're not going to cross but I certainly can't respect any view or argument with that as its foundation.
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#663 Oct 22 2014 at 10:01 AM Rating: Good
**
902 posts
Jophiel wrote:
Omegavegeta wrote:
I don't think she's wrong describing "gaming culture" & its origins as they are/were

Really? So all those things I listed before? They don't matter? Just a bunch social incompetants waiting to buy the next game and they don't even know why?
I previously wrote:
Not the benign banter between gamers on the internet or MMORPG guilds that last for years and inspire real-life meetings or modding communities or indie game jams or fan art communities or long discussions about the ending of Bioshock Infinite or Spec Ops: The Line or the umpteen charity drives or the enormous Let's Play community or any of the rest of it?

I've made friends playing games. I've participated in great gaming communities. I've had people create fantastic art for me just because they liked a character I designed. I saw a guy code a program to take people's City of Heroes character costume data and turn it into data for 3D printing so people could have tangible reminders once the game shut down. I've seen people donate shittons of games for charity raffles. I've given away hardware to people so they could play games. I've been part of very entertaining guilds. I could go on and on. That's what I think of when I think of "gaming culture". Not the sad view she holds and you seem to agree with.

Well, I guess that's an impasse we're not going to cross but I certainly can't respect any view or argument with that as its foundation.



I agree that this is a terrible representation of what I see as "gamers" and the game playing people I know. But if within that community, do we not have a responsibility to speak out against the idiots who pose death threats to someone who writes an article like this?

Look, I am all for pointing out how wrong this portrayal is ( in my eyes ) and doing so in an intelligent way ( as you do Joph ) , but when people take it to the lengths that is has seem to have gone in this case ( death threats, pure hate writing, talking about rape ), to me it detracts from any real argument and as such needs to be addressed.

Anyway....
#664 Oct 22 2014 at 10:30 AM Rating: Excellent
Meat Popsicle
*****
13,666 posts
Omegavegeta wrote:
While I think "men's rights" advocates are just about as stupid as racists, any sort of "legitimacy" that issue may have (even if I think it has close to zero) goes out the window when viewed through the lens of that particular subreddit. While /r/KotakuInAction is relatively civil, any legitimacy it may have comes into question when its moderator moderates mens rights advocates' rape subreddits at the same time.
Maybe it's just me, but I don't really care what kind of porn he's into.

Perhaps I missed something here though. Was he purposely trying to link the two? I mean I see how it's an issue if he's the one doing the bad photoshops of Anita and what not, or otherwise threatening to take his fantasies out on particular people in reality. But other than that, and assuming he's bright enough to keep the two worlds as two separate things, I'm just not feeling the outrage. Then again who knows, I can't say I follow that particular subreddit well enough to know whether or not I should be outraged.

Edited, Oct 22nd 2014 9:52am by someproteinguy
____________________________
That monster in the mirror, he just might be you. -Grover
#665 Oct 22 2014 at 10:37 AM Rating: Excellent
*******
50,767 posts
someproteinguy wrote:
Maybe it's just be, but I don't really care what kind of porn he's into.
No no, see what he does in the privacy of his own home, virtually at that, is everyone's business and should be used against him because we disagree with him.
____________________________
George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
#666 Oct 22 2014 at 10:48 AM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
yenwangweh wrote:
Look, I am all for pointing out how wrong this portrayal is ( in my eyes ) and doing so in an intelligent way ( as you do Joph ) , but when people take it to the lengths that is has seem to have gone in this case ( death threats, pure hate writing, talking about rape ), to me it detracts from any real argument and as such needs to be addressed.

Oh, absolutely. With the same goal, the two arguments should be:
(A) The culture around gaming is, and can continue to be, awesome. Towards that, it's in our best interest to be inclusive and welcoming to those who show interest. Even if someone doesn't ultimately find their home in your particular niche of choice, they may have great things to contribute elsewhere in the greater community so driving them away with bad behavior of any stripe is a detriment. Take pride in your community/culture and share it and let it grow
-and-
(B) Likewise, speak out against the bad apples. Sure, everyone's against death threats and it's not as though you need to get into a Twitter war with trolls on some White Knight mission, but when this stuff happens is the time to reinforce that they don't speak for the community as a whole.

Anyway, that's somewhat secondary to the previous point I was making about the "Gamers Are Dead" articles being insulting while those making them give little innocent shrugs and say "Gee, why is anyone upset about this unless they're just woman-hating troll monsters?"
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#667 Oct 22 2014 at 10:50 AM Rating: Good
Skelly Poker Since 2008
*****
16,781 posts
It's classic stereotyping. Like the culture writer was at some gamecon one day, met a group of adolescent gamers being anti/un-social and set out to write a thesis about gaming culture based on that meeting.

Joph's description of the gaming community brought to mind the Pink for Tink campaign. Tink (Tinkerhell was her Wizard's name) was a middle-aged women playing war-hammer when she was diagnosed (for the second time) with breast cancer. The community support was news-making.

Anyways, we shouldn't support bad behavior but instead encourage tolerance and provide good examples in all things we do and all groups we belong to. Obviously that's easier said than done.

Edited, Oct 22nd 2014 6:58pm by Elinda
____________________________
Alma wrote:
I lost my post
#668 Oct 22 2014 at 11:02 AM Rating: Good
*******
50,767 posts
Elinda wrote:
Anyways, we shouldn't support bad behavior but instead encourage tolerance and provide good examples in all things we do and all groups we belong to.
Where was this defense squad and outrage last December for Calvin Johnson?
____________________________
George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
#669 Oct 22 2014 at 11:03 AM Rating: Decent
Joph wrote:
Really? So all those things I listed before? They don't matter? Just a bunch social incompetants waiting to buy the next game and they don't even know why?


I took that as her describing aspects of "gaming culture", I did not take it as her calling all gamers neckbeards.

Joph wrote:
I've made friends playing games. I've participated in great gaming communities. I've had people create fantastic art for me just because they liked a character I designed. I saw a guy code a program to take people's City of Heroes character costume data and turn it into data for 3D printing so people could have tangible reminders once the game shut down. I've seen people donate ******** of games for charity raffles. I've given away hardware to people so they could play games. I've been part of very entertaining guilds. I could go on and on. That's what I think of when I think of "gaming culture". Not the sad view she holds and you seem to agree with.


Awesome. We've also dealt with people like Varus for years & it would really stink if he became representative of all of us in the Asylum because he had the loudest voice, wouldn't it? What if a movement was somehow inspired by a post he made after getting dumped, it'd be dubious even after it pivoted to something other than "ruin the reputation of my ex out of spite" wouldn't it?

I really didn't take that article as an attack on all gamers, but on that loud vocal minority & the community hubs that allow it to happen. While incredibly stereotypical at times and sometimes mean, she isn't wrong that those stereotypes are a part of the gaming culture. I wasn't insulted by the stereotypes that applied to me, nor do I think should you be. Luckily, gamers are way more diverse than they were when we first started gaming & "gaming culture" now includes way more woman, sexualities, & minorities than ever. Not even the dying flails of the loudest minority in gaming is going to change that, hence the "death of gamers" articles that came out post gamergate.
____________________________
"The Rich are there to take all of the money & pay none of the taxes, the middle class is there to do all the work and pay all the taxes, and the poor are there to scare the crap out of the middle class." -George Carlin


#670 Oct 22 2014 at 11:06 AM Rating: Excellent
Meat Popsicle
*****
13,666 posts
lolgaxe wrote:
someproteinguy wrote:
Maybe it's just be, but I don't really care what kind of porn he's into.
No no, see what he does in the privacy of his own home, virtually at that, is everyone's business and should be used against him because we disagree with him.
Don't you start with that conservative thinking now, you'll be sewing on scarlet letters before you know it.

Besides when was the last time anyone's stash actually made them look better in the public eye? Smiley: rolleyes
____________________________
That monster in the mirror, he just might be you. -Grover
#671 Oct 22 2014 at 11:13 AM Rating: Decent
**
902 posts
Jophiel wrote:
yenwangweh wrote:
Look, I am all for pointing out how wrong this portrayal is ( in my eyes ) and doing so in an intelligent way ( as you do Joph ) , but when people take it to the lengths that is has seem to have gone in this case ( death threats, pure hate writing, talking about rape ), to me it detracts from any real argument and as such needs to be addressed.

Oh, absolutely. With the same goal, the two arguments should be:
(A) The culture around gaming is, and can continue to be, awesome. Towards that, it's in our best interest to be inclusive and welcoming to those who show interest. Even if someone doesn't ultimately find their home in your particular niche of choice, they may have great things to contribute elsewhere in the greater community so driving them away with bad behavior of any stripe is a detriment. Take pride in your community/culture and share it and let it grow
-and-
(B) Likewise, speak out against the bad apples. Sure, everyone's against death threats and it's not as though you need to get into a Twitter war with trolls on some White Knight mission, but when this stuff happens is the time to reinforce that they don't speak for the community as a whole.

Anyway, that's somewhat secondary to the previous point I was making about the "Gamers Are Dead" articles being insulting while those making them give little innocent shrugs and say "Gee, why is anyone upset about this unless they're just woman-hating troll monsters?"


Agree, and I did usurp what you said a bit to tie in the rest of the thread. It, for me, ties into our state of political discussions in the US right now. If you don't agree with me you are Insert insult here .... same can be said for feeling that the gamer community does a have a vibrant feel and isn't just a bunch of slack jawed woman hating wizard hat wearing trolls...

although, I do sometimes wear the wizard hat while playing EQ2....
#672 Oct 22 2014 at 11:15 AM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
Omegavegeta wrote:
I took that as her describing aspects of "gaming culture"

No, she said there WAS no gaming culture besides neckbeards and memes and trolling. It's her opening remark. Seriously, this stuff is all written out... no interpretation necessary.
Quote:
We've also dealt with people like Varus for years & it would really stink if he became representative of all of us in the Asylum because he had the loudest voice, wouldn't it?

If someone supposedly had 'studied' the forum (laughable as the idea is) and all they came away with "This forum has no community, just one guy who yells about liberals" then that person can be safely disregarded as either intentionally blind for the sake of an agenda or a complete idiot unqualified to pass any judgment at all.
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#673 Oct 22 2014 at 11:16 AM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
someproteinguy wrote:
Besides when was the last time anyone's stash actually made them look better in the public eye? Smiley: rolleyes

My porn stash is all autographed selfies from supermodels and movie stars.

Edited, Oct 22nd 2014 12:16pm by Jophiel
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#674 Oct 22 2014 at 12:07 PM Rating: Good
Quote:
Maybe it's just me, but I don't really care what kind of **** he's into.


Neither do I.

But when one spends their free time moderating all sorts of misogynistic mens rights rape fantasies, while also moderating the forum most associated with gamergate - a movement trying really hard to distance itself from its more misogynistic aspects, it makes it a bit harder to take it seriously.

I assume he doesn't find it as disgusting as I do or else he wouldn't moderate it, which is a problem for /r/KotakuInAction's aspirations to be seen as not-misogynistic.
____________________________
"The Rich are there to take all of the money & pay none of the taxes, the middle class is there to do all the work and pay all the taxes, and the poor are there to scare the crap out of the middle class." -George Carlin


#675 Oct 22 2014 at 12:08 PM Rating: Good
Skelly Poker Since 2008
*****
16,781 posts
lolgaxe wrote:
Elinda wrote:
Anyways, we shouldn't support bad behavior but instead encourage tolerance and provide good examples in all things we do and all groups we belong to.
Where was this defense squad and outrage last December for Calvin Johnson?

I've never heard of Calvin Johnson. Sorry.

It's stupid to point out all the times people have been wronged and somehow think that the lack of support for their issue justifies other's behaving wrongly ...or something. Anyway you make a poor point son. I don't have a squad, nor defense. I've not exhibited outrage either.

Edited, Oct 22nd 2014 8:10pm by Elinda
____________________________
Alma wrote:
I lost my post
#676 Oct 22 2014 at 12:45 PM Rating: Good
lolgaxe wrote:
Where was this defense squad and outrage last December for Calvin Johnson?


I'm outraged by Calvin Johnson now. I wasted a first round pick on him in my fantasy football league just for him to get hurt >.<
____________________________
"The Rich are there to take all of the money & pay none of the taxes, the middle class is there to do all the work and pay all the taxes, and the poor are there to scare the crap out of the middle class." -George Carlin


Reply To Thread

Colors Smileys Quote OriginalQuote Checked Help

 

Recent Visitors: 254 All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (254)