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#252 Oct 06 2014 at 6:56 AM Rating: Good
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Elinda wrote:
I will. gamer's gate started because a ****-hurt guy lost his girl to another guy.
First of all, that's not what the Zoe post was about. And it would have been forgotten by now, if not for events that followed.

The Zoe post led to MundaneMatt mentioning it in a video. Again, that would have been forgotten, but she tried to censor it using a DMCA claim. That got people talking more, but again, it would have gone away if they had just dropped it. That's what set up the blaze. The match that sparked GamerGate was the nine or so articles within a few hours of each other on various games journalism sites decrying gamers as being dead.

Elinda wrote:
Multiple times you've alluded to the claims of death threats by Anita as being some kind of conspiracy....and you base that opinion on internet trash-talk. You don't know Anita personally. You don't have access to the police files about the threats. You formulated an opinion by reading and spreading gossip.

Share it here all you want - it's a free world forum (minus google-censor), but the value to video game development approaches nil.
I really want to respond to the rest of this, but I'm literally out of time to do so. Will continue later.
#253 Oct 06 2014 at 7:13 AM Rating: Excellent
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Elinda wrote:
You formulated an opinion by reading and spreading gossip.
Well, there's also the timing of the death threats to take into account.
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#254 Oct 06 2014 at 8:01 AM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
Elinda wrote:
You formulated an opinion by reading and spreading gossip.
Well, there's also the timing of the death threats to take into account.
In two ways. It was suspicious that they came when her latest video was getting ignored. But when you also look at the screenshots she took of them with an analytical eye, you might find yourself wondering about a number of coincidences. You put those together and it's enough to at least question whether they were real.

That's more or less what I was planning to say when I ran out of time, though I wanted to post the screenies. I think that the screenshots have already been linked earlier in the thread, so I'm not going to bother doing so again. It's either argue more or eat a snack and play Diablo. And I'm with Vivian on which of those options is better.
#255 Oct 06 2014 at 9:21 AM Rating: Good
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The One and Only Poldaran wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
Elinda wrote:
You formulated an opinion by reading and spreading gossip.
Well, there's also the timing of the death threats to take into account.
In two ways. It was suspicious that they came when her latest video was getting ignored. But when you also look at the screenshots she took of them with an analytical eye, you might find yourself wondering about a number of coincidences. You put those together and it's enough to at least question whether they were real.

Lots of things are 'suspicious' that doesn't make them any less real or imaginary.

Why are you so determined to discredit this person's claims?

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#256 Oct 06 2014 at 10:23 AM Rating: Excellent
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Elinda wrote:
Has all the gamers-gating, man-hating, women despising had one once of effect on games?

I blame women for Remember Me. I remember the female developer of that title talking about no one would publish it because of its strong female roles and stuff. Turns out it was just a really bad game.
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#257 Oct 06 2014 at 11:38 AM Rating: Good
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Elinda wrote:
Lots of things are 'suspicious' that doesn't make them any less real or imaginary.

Why are you so determined to discredit this person's claims?
Why are you so determined to protect her?

Edit: To add: Why did people stand up to Jack Thompson? Because he was lying in an attempt to push his ideology onto us. Anita Sarkeesian is only different in the way the media has treated her. Beyond that, she is the same intellectually dishonest person he was. He got the same threats, but you didn't hear anyone putting on a pity party for him.

For that matter, some pro-gamergate folks have gotten similar threats. Someone went as far as to mail Milo Yeahimnotgonnatrytospellhisname a syringe of some unknown substance. I don't see him with a Tedx talk or a spot on CNN talking about how brave he is.

Edited, Oct 6th 2014 11:47am by Poldaran
#258 Oct 06 2014 at 12:19 PM Rating: Good
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The One and Only Poldaran wrote:


For that matter, some pro-gamergate folks have gotten similar threats. Someone went as far as to mail Milo Yeahimnotgonnatrytospellhisname a syringe of some unknown substance. I don't see him with a Tedx talk or a spot on CNN talking about how brave he is.

Edited, Oct 6th 2014 11:47am by Poldaran

They staged those attacks on themselves for notoriety. Smiley: rolleyes

This woman attacked our games. I didn't like her conclusions any more than the next gamer. i thought she was full of crap. Still do. But, I'm not going to deflect death threats made on her because I wasn't on board with her research.

Remember how this started. If there is any blame to be had, that's where it's at.

If you want to talk ethics in journalism - gamers gate doesn't do that.

It's vitriolic gossip. It's soap opera. It's addicting. You want to keep seeing what the next guy has to say and newest piece of evidence found that points out so-and-so was secretly doing this-or-that, go for it. But you try and sell it here as news that's going to break the back of the gaming world, I'm going to disagree.

Edited, Oct 6th 2014 8:19pm by Elinda
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#259 Oct 06 2014 at 12:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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Elinda wrote:
But, I'm not going to deflect death threats made on her because I wasn't on board with her research.
Considering how manipulative and faulty said research is, it's not unreasonable to doubt any other claims she makes. Just sounds like a ploy to remain relevant more than interest in getting one's point across.
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#260 Oct 06 2014 at 1:09 PM Rating: Decent
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I blame women for Remember Me. I remember the female developer of that title talking about no one would publish it because of its strong female roles and stuff. Turns out it was just a really bad game.


Yeah, jesus, horrible. I haven't played the Assasins' Creed games, but aren't they run by a broad? There must be some AAA games that are created by ladies.
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To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#261 Oct 06 2014 at 1:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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Elinda wrote:
They staged those attacks on themselves for notoriety. Smiley: rolleyes
You have any evidence? Because I only required about a minute to find a pic showing those things I think are fishy enough to suggest that maybe she did lie about the latest death threats.
It's from RoK, but that's what you get in under a minute. Either way, where's yours?
Elinda wrote:
Remember how this started. If there is any blame to be had, that's where it's at.
You're right. We can't forget that cabal of games "journalists" who decided to tell us that we were "over". You can insist this isn't about them, but they are pretty much my primary focus. I'll discuss Anita and Zoe when brought up, as they are tied up in all of this. Anita has been tied to Silverstring Media, which is tied to a number of these publications and indie games companies. Zoe has ties as well, not to mention her role in the TFYC incident.
Elinda wrote:
You want to keep seeing what the next guy has to say and newest piece of evidence found that points out so-and-so was secretly doing this-or-that, go for it.
When it's news about more ******* corruption, you bet your ***. Or if it amuses me. I'll tell you when it's the latter.
Elinda wrote:
But you try and sell it here as news that's going to break the back of the gaming world, I'm going to disagree.
If you don't think that one-sided, collusion-driven press coverage by a bunch of self-serving whack jobs with an agenda is a danger to a medium, you haven't learned the lessons of history. Imagine if all news was suddenly Fox News and no one was willing to call them on their *********

Edited, Oct 6th 2014 1:23pm by Poldaran
#262 Oct 06 2014 at 2:11 PM Rating: Good
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The One and Only Poldaran wrote:
Elinda wrote:
They staged those attacks on themselves for notoriety. Smiley: rolleyes
You have any evidence? Because I only required about a minute to find a pic showing those things I think are fishy enough to suggest that maybe she did lie about the latest death threats.
It's from RoK, but that's what you get in under a minute. Either way, where's yours?
I was being facetious. That's why the 'eye-roll' smiley.

However it's pretty easy to make some chat lines, take a screenie, add some circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each One explaining what each one was to be used as evidence against usA. Guthrie

It's also easy to fake a death threat, call in the FBI and jeopardize your freedom, your reputation and your livelihood. You'd have to be pretty desperate, like robbing a bank desperate.



Edited, Oct 6th 2014 10:12pm by Elinda
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#263 Oct 06 2014 at 2:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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I realize that there's a "theory" that she faked the Tweet but I'm also sure that she gets a bunch of Tweets threatening all sorts of stuff. All she'd need to do is call the police about one and say that she's really scared. It doesn't mean that the police will find it to be a credible threat or ever act upon it beyond "We'll send a car to drive past your house tonight" but it meets all the marks for "I got a terrible Tweet and it super scared me and I had to sleep at a friends and now the police have it so that's how terrible the world is".

To be clear, none of this excuses any of the threatening messages. There's really no scenario that makes it okay to send a Tweet threating to murder-rape someone that doesn't start with "But what if aliens were going to blow up the world unless..."
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Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#264 Oct 07 2014 at 8:02 AM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
To be clear, none of this excuses any of the threatening messages.
Of course there's no excuse, but at the same time we should consider the personality and methods of the individual being discussed and then decide whether the information is reliable or not.
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#265 Oct 07 2014 at 8:10 AM Rating: Excellent
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I don't have an argument with that. Like I said, I could easily see the "reported to police" being the same thing as lightly slapping your siblings arm and having them run crying to mom saying you just hit them so hard you probably broke it.

Same as Quinn and her remarks that she's been forwarding IRC logs to the FBI. That doesn't mean the FBI gives a shit or placed her case as a higher priority than planning the birthday party for Mary in Accounting. But just saying "I forwarded this to the FBI" or "I contacted the police" makes it sound like a Real Big Deal.
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Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#266 Oct 07 2014 at 9:00 AM Rating: Good
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Credited news sources report she was threatened: bomb threats, death threats, FBI investigations etc. No credited news source has, as far as I know, renegged on those reports nor offered up any follow up explaining that the threats were self-created.

If you guys want to go off on some half-***** conspiracy theory because of an gurl that said mean things about your games, go for it.
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#267 Oct 07 2014 at 9:10 AM Rating: Excellent
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Hey, my half-assed theory doesn't involve self-created threats!
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Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#268 Oct 07 2014 at 9:20 AM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
Hey, my half-assed theory doesn't involve self-created threats!

Arse was censored? Smiley: frown

I suppose half of a derriere would be one 'cheek'.

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#269 Oct 07 2014 at 9:35 AM Rating: Good
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Credited news sources report she was threatened: bomb threats, death threats, FBI investigations etc. No credited news source has, as far as I know, renegged on those reports nor offered up any follow up explaining that the threats were self-created.

If you guys want to go off on some half-***** conspiracy theory because of an gurl that said mean things about your games, go for it.


It's more that her prior behavior matches what one would expect of an attention seeking borderline personality. So, when something happens that would fit that pathology perfectly, it's not disingenuous to wonder if it might be the case. It's unfortunate, either way, but no additional harm is done by speculating. It would seem rather odd, however, given modern computer forensics that police were unable to find the origin of a death threat. Generally something that's taken fairly seriously, particularly with even a little bit of PR impact.

Edited, Oct 7th 2014 11:35am by Smasharoo
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Disclaimer:

To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#270 Oct 07 2014 at 9:40 AM Rating: Excellent
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Elinda wrote:
If you guys want to go off on some half-***** conspiracy theory because of an gurl that said mean things about your games, go for it.
It's less to do with it being a gurl as much as it is a liar. No one seems to have any problem doubting Jack Thompson reliability.
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#271 Oct 07 2014 at 10:02 AM Rating: Excellent
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I will say that the "Oh no, someone said Gamers are over!" thing is very overblown in my mind. "Gamers" will be "over" when said gamers stop accounting for 95% of the revenue of the AAA titles designed to appeal to them. No matter what some silly gaming rag has to say about it.

Feel much the same about Sarkeesian. I'll pick apart her arguments for fun but her actual impact on the direction of mainstream console/PC gaming is going to be minimal until someone else is ponying up the billions of dollars spent on it.
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Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#272 Oct 07 2014 at 10:09 AM Rating: Decent
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I will say that the "Oh no, someone said Gamers are over!" thing is very overblown in my mind. "Gamers" will be "over" when said gamers stop accounting for 95% of the revenue of the AAA titles designed to appeal to them

AAA titles, pretty much by definition, are no longer designed to appeal to 'gamers'. It seems unlikely that Madden, Call of Duty, Battlefield, Grand Theft Thing, etc are purchased mostly by people who would self identify as "gamers"
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Disclaimer:

To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#273 Oct 07 2014 at 10:16 AM Rating: Excellent
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I doubt Sarkeesian is being harassed by legions of Thomas Was Alone and Kentucky Route Zero fans. From what I've seen of her videos, all the recent games she harps on are AAA titles: Watch Dogs, Hitman, Tomb Raider, Dishonored, Grand Theft Auto, Saints Row, yadda yadda... I suppose Hotline Miami isn't AAA. I tried to look for a list of games she's used in her videos but it wasn't the first hit on Google so then I got bored.

Edited, Oct 7th 2014 11:18am by Jophiel
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#274 Oct 07 2014 at 11:40 AM Rating: Excellent
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lolgaxe wrote:
Elinda wrote:
If you guys want to go off on some half-***** conspiracy theory because of an gurl that said mean things about your games, go for it.
It's less to do with it being a gurl as much as it is a liar. No one seems to have any problem doubting Jack Thompson reliability.
TBH I'd be surprised if she has (had?) never gotten a death threat, because internet and all.
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#275 Oct 07 2014 at 12:36 PM Rating: Good
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Elinda wrote:
Credited news sources report she was threatened: bomb threats, death threats, FBI investigations etc. No credited news source has, as far as I know, renegged on those reports nor offered up any follow up explaining that the threats were self-created.
I take it you'll be the first to volunteer to protect our nuclear ******* from space aliens? When can I expect you to visit my state with a proton pack?

Smasharoo wrote:
Credited news sources report she was threatened: bomb threats, death threats, FBI investigations etc. No credited news source has, as far as I know, renegged on those reports nor offered up any follow up explaining that the threats were self-created.

If you guys want to go off on some half-***** conspiracy theory because of an gurl that said mean things about your games, go for it.


It's more that her prior behavior matches what one would expect of an attention seeking borderline personality. So, when something happens that would fit that pathology perfectly, it's not disingenuous to wonder if it might be the case. It's unfortunate, either way, but no additional harm is done by speculating. It would seem rather odd, however, given modern computer forensics that police were unable to find the origin of a death threat. Generally something that's taken fairly seriously, particularly with even a little bit of PR impact.
More or less what Smash said.

lolgaxe wrote:
Elinda wrote:
If you guys want to go off on some half-***** conspiracy theory because of an gurl that said mean things about your games, go for it.
It's less to do with it being a gurl as much as it is a liar. No one seems to have any problem doubting Jack Thompson reliability.
Maybe Jack Thompson shouldn't have pulled on his big girl panties and instead should have damselled himself to get protection from the big, bad gamers. Oh wait. He couldn't do that.

He didn't have friends in the media who would make the problem go away like the corrupt ******** they are.

Edit: Arsenal. Smiley: motz

Edited, Oct 7th 2014 12:37pm by Poldaran
#276 Oct 07 2014 at 2:34 PM Rating: Good
So, basically, this boils down to a woman offending a bunch of 'spergers which resulted in a game of internet shenanigans between an attention ***** & the kind of folks that take the internet way to seriously.
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