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Father shoots/kills daughter's boyfriendFollow

#27 Mar 15 2014 at 12:54 PM Rating: Good
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Almalieque wrote:
angrymnk wrote:
. *shrug* When I am worried about my life or the life of the ones close to me, there is little precious time for jurisprudence.

They will figure it out afterwards. If I was wrong.. well, I did what I thought was right given the set of information at my disposal at the time.

I am sure more facts will surface and it may affect public opinion somewhat, but as it stands right now, you are simply wrong. I am not even sure why we are discussing it.

No, really. Why are we discussing it?

He didn't, nor any prudent person in that situation, think that he was doing the right thing. This isn't 1940... Teenagers tend to have sex. Teenagers often sneak in/out of rooms. Teenagers often lie to their parents about their love life. There was absolutely no evidence of his daughter being raped.

I'm not claiming that he did or didn't violate any laws. I'm claiming that what he did was wrong. Just like the up skirt picture scandal. It was totally legal and legit.


Are you trying to tell me that in the olden times things were better and teenagers didn't have sex?

Really?
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#28 Mar 15 2014 at 1:03 PM Rating: Default
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angrymnk wrote:

Are you trying to tell me that in the olden times things were better and teenagers didn't have sex?

No wonder you have a hard time understanding the situation. Nowhere did I say or imply about life being "better". It's a fact that sex has become less taboo over the years. Without doing any research, I'm willing to bet that we have much more teenage parents now than we did in 1940. That's not to say teens in 1940s never had sex.

None of that changes the scenario in question.
#29 Mar 15 2014 at 1:16 PM Rating: Decent
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Almalieque wrote:
angrymnk wrote:

Are you trying to tell me that in the olden times things were better and teenagers didn't have sex?

No wonder you have a hard time understanding the situation. Nowhere did I say or imply about life being "better". It's a fact that sex has become less taboo over the years. Without doing any research, I'm willing to bet that we have much more teenage parents now than we did in 1940. That's not to say teens in 1940s never had sex.

None of that changes the scenario in question.


Right. Lessee..

Quote:
This isn't 1940... Teenagers tend to have sex.


The fact that sex has become less does not mean that people have become more accustomed to their daughter being defiled in another room without them knowing about it beforehand.

Ergo, since he did not known about it, he had every right to suspect the worst. At 2 AM he had the right to expect an assailant. At 2 AM in his daughter's room he had every right to expect a rapist. After the daughter's denial, unless he had a reason to not trust her ( and 2 AM you will trust your daughter over random stranger ).

I am sorry. You are just wrong.

It is tragic, but that is about it.
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#30 Mar 15 2014 at 1:19 PM Rating: Excellent
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angrymnk wrote:
Why are we discussing it?
We aren't.
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#31Almalieque, Posted: Mar 15 2014 at 1:37 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) You can say that I'm wrong all you want, but there is absolutely no evidence to corroborate your claim and every evidence (i.e., she lied and there was no weapon) that supports that the father overreacted. Whether or not he violated a law is a totally different scenario.
#32 Mar 15 2014 at 2:18 PM Rating: Decent
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Almalieque wrote:
angrymnk wrote:
The fact that sex has become less does not mean that people have become more accustomed to their daughter being defiled in another room without them knowing about it beforehand.


Didn't say that it was.. You came up with that fiction on your own. I can see how you would think that your teenage daughter in bed with another teenager, in your house, while you're there was being raped. You are truly gullible. The point, in which you obviously missed, is that we expect teenagers to have sex more now where as before, the expectation was to wait till marriage.

angrymnk wrote:
Ergo, since he did not known about it, he had every right to suspect the worst. At 2 AM he had the right to expect an assailant. At 2 AM in his daughter's room he had every right to expect a rapist. After the daughter's denial, unless he had a reason to not trust her ( and 2 AM you will trust your daughter over random stranger ).

I am sorry. You are just wrong.

It is tragic, but that is about it.


You can say that I'm wrong all you want, but there is absolutely no evidence to corroborate your claim and every evidence (i.e., she lied and there was no weapon) that supports that the father overreacted. Whether or not he violated a law is a totally different scenario.


If the father had to ask her, then she obviously wasn't in the state of mind of being raped.


Edited, Mar 15th 2014 9:38pm by Almalieque


Some of us have this thing called empathy; that is, we come up with the plausible scenarios in our head about how others perceive the situation.

Me, based on the information you provided, empathized with the father and, yes, did come up with a scenario in my head. Here is the fun part. Everyone does it. Well, most humans do.

I hate to break it to you, but coming up with a scenario in your head is normal ( ie. everyone does it -- psychopaths, supposedly can't, but they are outliers).

There is no evidence for the other side either. Hence, my statement "based on available set of information" some posts above this one. I know, words are hard.

Did he overreact? Maybe, but at 2 AM in the morning I am willing to side with him rather than some random teen who was trying to score.

Actually you know what? I am glad. It will set a nice precedent and kids will think 0.05 seconds longer before trying for some B&E&BJ.

Also, the fact that father asked her means that he was being sensible about it. I don't think most people would even extend that much kindness.


Edited, Mar 15th 2014 4:18pm by angrymnk

Edited, Mar 15th 2014 4:19pm by angrymnk
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#33 Mar 15 2014 at 2:24 PM Rating: Good
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angrymnk wrote:
before trying for some B&E&BJ.


I'm assuming Breaking and Entering and Blowjobs? Is it breaking and entering if you are invited in by someone who lives in the building?
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#34 Mar 15 2014 at 2:25 PM Rating: Default
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TirithRR wrote:
angrymnk wrote:
before trying for some B&E&BJ.


I'm assuming Breaking and Entering and Blowjobs? Is it breaking and entering if you are invited in by someone who lives in the building?


She initially denied having inviting him. Keep up^^
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#35 Mar 15 2014 at 2:33 PM Rating: Good
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angrymnk wrote:
TirithRR wrote:
angrymnk wrote:
before trying for some B&E&BJ.


I'm assuming Breaking and Entering and Blowjobs? Is it breaking and entering if you are invited in by someone who lives in the building?


She initially denied having inviting him. Keep up^^


But this isn't an example of "B&E&BJ". So using this as an example of not to do that doesn't make sense. Might as well say use it as an example of not trying to rape a 16 year classmate while her father is sleeping in the house (cause, you know, it's also not what happened).

Or we just use it as an example for what it is. Learn to not lie about relationships to an armed guardian, unless you really wanted to break up with the person with out having to go through the difficulty of actually telling the person you didn't want to be with them anymore.
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#36 Mar 15 2014 at 2:39 PM Rating: Excellent
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While I'm sure that this won't be a popular view. If I were the DA in that area, I'd find a way to charge the daughter. She set up a situation, admittedly without intent of someone dying, in which someone did die. I don't think jail time would be appropriate, but a major fine and huge pile of community service wouldn't be out of the question.
#37 Mar 15 2014 at 2:41 PM Rating: Default
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TirithRR wrote:


Or we just use it as an example for what it is. Learn to not lie about relationships to an armed guardian, unless you really wanted to break up with the person with out having to go through the difficulty of actually telling the person you didn't want to be with them anymore.


I can go for that.

Hopefully, the girl learned a valuable lesson.

A guy had to die, but it is not like we have a shortage of horny 17 year-olds.


Edited, Mar 15th 2014 4:41pm by angrymnk
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#38 Mar 15 2014 at 2:48 PM Rating: Excellent
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Turin wrote:
While I'm sure that this won't be a popular view. If I were the DA in that area, I'd find a way to charge the daughter. She set up a situation, admittedly without intent of someone dying, in which someone did die. I don't think jail time would be appropriate, but a major fine and huge pile of community service wouldn't be out of the question.
Criminally negligent homicide.
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#39 Mar 15 2014 at 2:50 PM Rating: Good
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Turin wrote:
While I'm sure that this won't be a popular view. If I were the DA in that area, I'd find a way to charge the daughter. She set up a situation, admittedly without intent of someone dying, in which someone did die. I don't think jail time would be appropriate, but a major fine and huge pile of community service wouldn't be out of the question.


Eff that **** slap some manslaughter on her *** and ship her to the clink for a couple years.
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#40 Mar 15 2014 at 2:51 PM Rating: Default
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angrymnk wrote:
Some of us have this thing called empathy; that is, we come up with the plausible scenarios in our head about how others perceive the situation.

Me, based on the information you provided, empathized with the father and, yes, did come up with a scenario in my head. Here is the fun part. Everyone does it. Well, most humans do.

I hate to break it to you, but coming up with a scenario in your head is normal ( ie. everyone does it -- psychopaths, supposedly can't, but they are outliers).


I have empathy as well. I admitted that killing the child is probably the first thought in most fathers' heads. Likewise if he had walked in on his wife sleeping with another man. However, that thought doesn't justify the action of killing.

angrymnk wrote:
There is no evidence for the other side either. Hence, my statement "based on available set of information" some posts above this one. I know, words are hard.


The whole scenario is information that supports the notion that she was with her boyfriend and not being raped. Understanding the fact that teenagers sneak people in their bedroom (hence the 1940 reference), there was no evidence to support that she was being assaulted.

angrymnk wrote:
Did he overreact? Maybe, but at 2 AM in the morning I am willing to side with him rather than some random teen who was trying to score.

Actually you know what? I am glad. It will set a nice precedent and kids will think 0.05 seconds longer before trying for some B&E&BJ.


So, would you feel the same if that were your son that was killed? I guess he shouldn't have been trying to score with his girlfriend, who dimed him out. I guess you and her father would just talk it over some beer.

angrymnk wrote:
Also, the fact that father asked her means that he was being sensible about it. I don't think most people would even extend that much kindness.


The average person wouldn't ask because there wouldn't be a need to. It would be blatantly obvious by her reaction that something was amiss. He didn't ask for clarification, he asked for confirmation to kill.



#41 Mar 15 2014 at 2:56 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:

angrymnk wrote:
Also, the fact that father asked her means that he was being sensible about it. I don't think most people would even extend that much kindness.


The average person wouldn't ask because there wouldn't be a need to. It would be blatantly obvious by her reaction that something was amiss. He didn't ask for clarification, he asked for confirmation to kill.



So your point is he is not average? I am just a simple boy Alma; guide me in thy wisdom.

Edited, Mar 15th 2014 4:57pm by angrymnk
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#42 Mar 15 2014 at 2:59 PM Rating: Decent
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[quote]
Almalieque wrote:
angrymnk wrote:
Some of us have this thing called empathy; that is, we come up with the plausible scenarios in our head about how others perceive the situation.

Me, based on the information you provided, empathized with the father and, yes, did come up with a scenario in my head. Here is the fun part. Everyone does it. Well, most humans do.

I hate to break it to you, but coming up with a scenario in your head is normal ( ie. everyone does it -- psychopaths, supposedly can't, but they are outliers).


I have empathy as well. I admitted that killing the child is probably the first thought in most fathers' heads. Likewise if he had walked in on his wife sleeping with another man. However, that thought doesn't justify the action of killing.


It actually does. That's why I, and probably the father, classified it as home invasion.

So yeah, home invasion justifies defense.
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#43 Mar 15 2014 at 3:13 PM Rating: Default
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Angrymnk wrote:

So your point is he is not average? I am just a simple boy Alma; guide me in thy wisdom.


If she were being sexually assaulted when the father came in with his weapon ready to kill, then she would be screaming and crying for help. At that point, there is no reason to remain reticent (which she wasn't because her sibling was the one who heard her). If the teenager had no weapon (which he didn't), then she would have ran to safety. If that stuff occurred, then there wouldn't be a need to ask his daughter if she knew him, he would have just simply reacted. Given that none of that stuff happened, the prudent man would have accessed the situation as two horny teenagers. The fact that he didn't only supports the notion that he was simply acting out his emotions.
#44 Mar 15 2014 at 3:21 PM Rating: Good
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Almalieque wrote:
Angrymnk wrote:

So your point is he is not average? I am just a simple boy Alma; guide me in thy wisdom.


If she were being sexually assaulted when the father came in with his weapon ready to kill, then she would be screaming and crying for help. At that point, there is no reason to remain reticent (which she wasn't because her sibling was the one who heard her). If the teenager had no weapon (which he didn't), then she would have ran to safety. If that stuff occurred, then there wouldn't be a need to ask his daughter if she knew him, he would have just simply reacted. Given that none of that stuff happened, the prudent man would have accessed the situation as two horny teenagers. The fact that he didn't only supports the notion that he was simply acting out his emotions.


Oh? How many girls have you raped Alma that you have such a clear understanding of how they react in weapon/no weapon scenario? How do you know when they scream and when they suffer in silence?

The reality is you do not know. Neither one of us does*. But you are trying to make a simple equation out of it.

* or so I hope.

Edited, Mar 15th 2014 5:22pm by angrymnk
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#45 Mar 15 2014 at 3:36 PM Rating: Default
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angrymnk wrote:
Did he overreact? Maybe, but at 2 AM in the morning I am willing to side with him rather than some random teen who was trying to score.

Actually you know what? I am glad. It will set a nice precedent and kids will think 0.05 seconds longer before trying for some B&E&BJ.


So, would you feel the same if that were your son that was killed? I guess he shouldn't have been trying to score with his girlfriend, who dimed him out. I guess you and her father would just talk it over some beer.

angrymnk wrote:
Oh? How many girls have you raped Alma that you have such a clear understanding of how they react in weapon/no weapon scenario? How do you know when they scream and when they suffer in silence?

The reality is you do not know. Neither one of us does*. But you are trying to make a simple equation out of it.

* or so I hope.


What is Human Behavior? I don't have to be a serial killer to understand a serial killer.
#46 Mar 15 2014 at 3:40 PM Rating: Excellent
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God damn its like a ****** slap fight in here.

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#47 Mar 15 2014 at 4:00 PM Rating: Default
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Stalker rdmcandie wrote:
God damn its like a ****** slap fight in here.


Not until you came around.
#48 Mar 15 2014 at 4:01 PM Rating: Decent
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Almalieque wrote:
angrymnk wrote:
Did he overreact? Maybe, but at 2 AM in the morning I am willing to side with him rather than some random teen who was trying to score.

Actually you know what? I am glad. It will set a nice precedent and kids will think 0.05 seconds longer before trying for some B&E&BJ.


So, would you feel the same if that were your son that was killed? I guess he shouldn't have been trying to score with his girlfriend, who dimed him out. I guess you and her father would just talk it over some beer.

angrymnk wrote:
Oh? How many girls have you raped Alma that you have such a clear understanding of how they react in weapon/no weapon scenario? How do you know when they scream and when they suffer in silence?

The reality is you do not know. Neither one of us does*. But you are trying to make a simple equation out of it.

* or so I hope.


What is Human Behavior? I don't have to be a serial killer to understand a serial killer.


You don't have to, but it may be helpful to understand if you are going through the same thing.
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#49 Mar 15 2014 at 4:03 PM Rating: Decent
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Stalker rdmcandie wrote:
God damn its like a ****** slap fight in here.


You are my change of guard?
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#50 Mar 15 2014 at 4:26 PM Rating: Default
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angrymnk wrote:

You don't have to, but it may be helpful to understand if you are going through the same thing.

So, would you feel the same if that were your son that was killed? I guess he shouldn't have been trying to score with his girlfriend, who dimed him out. I guess you and her father would just talk it over some beer.
#51 Mar 15 2014 at 5:00 PM Rating: Decent
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Almalieque wrote:
angrymnk wrote:

You don't have to, but it may be helpful to understand if you are going through the same thing.

So, would you feel the same if that were your son that was killed? I guess he shouldn't have been trying to score with his girlfriend, who dimed him out. I guess you and her father would just talk it over some beer.


Hmm? I recognize the other parent may be upset, even angry.. and they have a right to that too.

What I would do? I dunno. I am not sure I know anyone could honestly answer that with a full confidence and follow words with action.

From a distance however, it is hardly a blip on the radar, merely a coma on the page of history. In the US, it is just another gun related death.

Edited, Mar 15th 2014 7:32pm by angrymnk
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