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#177 Mar 05 2014 at 10:14 PM Rating: Default
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Debalic wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Smasharoo wrote:
Seriously, what's the best possible outcome for me?


If you are actually right, you get to prove you are. Even if you don't think you can convince me, it would certainly go a long ways towards convincing anyone else reading this who maybe isn't sure who's right.

Really? Anyone who doesn't already know this isn't worth trying to sway.


And yet, the thread is still missing a single example of a "syndie" that is "not really authoritarian". Let's not forget that TLW said:

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No, the syndie breeds are not really authoritarian.


Which doesn't just suggest that it's possible for them to not be really authoritarian, but that this is a common/normal feature of them. I'm not even asking him to prove that most of them meet his claim. Just one will do.
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#178 Mar 05 2014 at 10:23 PM Rating: Default
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You know, I'd put a lot more weight into the wild speculations of some guy from Estonia based on meeting one doctor in the area, except that didn't one of the ministers in Ukraine actually authorize the use of deadly force by the police and military to quell the riots? Don't feel like digging up where I read that, but doesn't that kinda makes the whole point moot? I mean, you've got the government authorizing the military to fire on protesters and accounts of government troops actually being seen firing on protesters. Against this we have at best a phone conversation between two people who were not involved in any of this, discussing the possibility that since a doctor claimed that the wounds she was treating for both sides were from the same kind of bullets, it's possible that it wasn't the police who killed those protesters, but some group of snipers agitating the situation by firing at both sides?


I get that his makes for a great plot for a thriller novel, and I'm not even precluding the possibility that someone might do such a thing, but color me incredibly skeptical of that one. I'm going with the more obvious explanation in this case.
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#179 Mar 05 2014 at 10:52 PM Rating: Decent
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angrymnk wrote:
Stalker rdmcandie wrote:
angrymnk wrote:

Interesting.. I am not completely discounting the possibility.. but did the non-Yanukowich forces also kill, kidnap, beat, and otherwise harass the protesters?

What interesting times we live in.

Then again, Amnesty International has documented cases where "pro-government vigilante groups" attacked peaceful protesters.
I am honestly curious now. I wonder if there is any real chance we will get to see past the propaganda, bs, and fog of media war.


Propaganda is both more powerful, and much weaker than it has ever been. For people who just watch evening news, check their local news on the net, hear it on the radio, it is very easy to project opinion. But if you are actually interested in the goings on in the news you can access news from all over the globe written in dozens of different view points. The closer you get to Russia the more intense the pro Russia spin is, the closer you get to America the more intense the pro US spin is. The EU is kinda funny because while it is regarded as an international body internally their news takes on the spin of where it is. For instance the stories from Der Spiegl (German) are more in line with Russian thinking than Le Monde (French) are. Which is why the EU as a whole has been more or less hush hush the last week or two because really its ~30 Different opinions on what is happening.

I read news from every continent and in some cases several regions on that continent I think I am up to 20 different news sources that I read, so I can form my own opinion using all the facts and all the perspectives. Propaganda is wasted on me, because I can find a conflicting perspective in under a second. But millions get hosed by it because they don't really care, and can't be bothered to look into the goings on...they just flick on CNN see some Buzz words and think the sky is falling.

Honestly this situation is not as crazy as everyone is making it out to be....assuming Mr Obama and Mr Putin don't decide to go to war over the Ukraine...which is retarded for either to do as it is essentially Greece 2.0 and no one should want that shackle around their ankle.

Edited, Mar 5th 2014 10:51pm by rdmcandie

Edited, Mar 5th 2014 10:51pm by rdmcandie


You are assuming people are rational ( and good altana, I hope they are ).

Also, as a side note,

saying that propaganda is lost on you is like saying that advertising has no effect on you. It isn't, and it does have an effect.

The sooner you admit it to yourself, the better off you will be.


I think you underestimate my resilience to and ability to filter bullsh*t. I don't swoon over advertising for anything, I don't affiliate with political parties, and I most assuredly don't believe everything I read. Take it as you will friend. I guess im guilty of joining the "non conformist" crowd. but in general my motto is Don't Give a ****. and I really don't its awesome being both for, and against everything.

Edited, Mar 5th 2014 11:53pm by rdmcandie
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#180 Mar 05 2014 at 11:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
And yet, the thread is still missing a single example of a "syndie" that is "not really authoritarian".


If someone provided you with one, you'd just ignore it and not post in thread anymore.
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#181 Mar 05 2014 at 11:33 PM Rating: Decent
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Belkira the Tulip wrote:
gbaji wrote:
And yet, the thread is still missing a single example of a "syndie" that is "not really authoritarian".


If someone provided you with one, you'd just ignore it and not post in thread anymore.


Or type us a short novella full of slippery slopes and personal opinion on why such and such ~opposite position~ is true and all the facts and experts are wrong because they just don't get it.
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#182 Mar 06 2014 at 6:14 AM Rating: Decent
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Seems reasonable to ask for an example of this then, right?

Nope. The reason it's unreasonable is that you're a @#%^ing town drunk on these forums. Yes, you have value, you make everyone else feel better about themselves by virtue of not being you. No, you don't "deserve" an example of something you clearly don't understand. You waving your arms wildly and making random guesses about things I spent years studying at a high level doesn't make our relative opinions equivalent, and deserves exactly zero units of my respect. Which is what you've been given.



Edited, Mar 6th 2014 7:15am by Smasharoo
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#183 Mar 06 2014 at 6:16 AM Rating: Decent
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I accept that authoritarian, centralized political units sometimes succeed in convincing their populations that they're not. Usually by adopting labels created to describe hypothetical political systems which don't (or even can't) exist in the real world.

That's really incisive of you. Enough about capitalism, though.
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#184 Mar 06 2014 at 9:28 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
And yet, the thread is still missing a single example of a "syndie" that is "not really authoritarian". Let's not forget that TLW said:


I already did. Look to Spain around the time of the civil war. They had issues with the communists due to not wanting to form large social structures and join the worldwide struggle. Having no formal government is pretty close to the most "not authoritarian" as you can get.
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#185 Mar 06 2014 at 9:35 AM Rating: Good
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But that's not exactly 100% the answer he wants to the question!
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#186 Mar 06 2014 at 1:47 PM Rating: Decent
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But that's not exactly 100% the answer he wants to the question!

Which is the point, right. The idea that Gbaji is an authority figure we're going to pitch examples to and wait for him to judge them valid or not is laughable. I may as well ask my 1 year old for driving directions.
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To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

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#187 Mar 06 2014 at 1:59 PM Rating: Good
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Smasharoo wrote:
But that's not exactly 100% the answer he wants to the question!

Which is the point, right. The idea that Gbaji is an authority figure we're going to pitch examples to and wait for him to judge them valid or not is laughable. I may as well ask my 1 year old for driving directions.

Cripes, he wouldn't even let me sleep inside his monestary for night because I failed to praise his mountain.
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#188 Mar 06 2014 at 2:27 PM Rating: Excellent
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Elinda wrote:
Cripes, he wouldn't even let me sleep inside his monestary for night because I failed to praise his mountain.

Smiley: dubious

Is this a sex thing?
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#189 Mar 06 2014 at 2:31 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
Elinda wrote:
Cripes, he wouldn't even let me sleep inside his monestary for night because I failed to praise his mountain.

Smiley: dubious

Is this a sex thing?


I guess you didn't read the parable he posted. Smiley: lol
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#190 Mar 06 2014 at 2:34 PM Rating: Good
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Belkira the Tulip wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
Elinda wrote:
Cripes, he wouldn't even let me sleep inside his monestary for night because I failed to praise his mountain.

Smiley: dubious

Is this a sex thing?


I guess you didn't read the parable he posted. Smiley: lol

Joph is making a mountain out of molehill. Smiley: sly
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#191 Mar 06 2014 at 2:39 PM Rating: Excellent
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Belkira the Tulip wrote:
I guess you didn't read the parable he posted. Smiley: lol

Well, duh.
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#192 Mar 06 2014 at 4:26 PM Rating: Decent
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So Obama, and Harper have decided to tell the people of Crimea that democracy only counts if it is democracy that the US and Canada support. Crimean officials have voted to go to a state wide referendum on the future of the Crimean State. The people of Crimea will go to the polls in 10 days to decide whether to remain part of the Ukraine, or join Russia. Obama and Harper have both said that this is against international law, and that they will not support the Crimean peoples democratic decision should they decide to join Russia. They state that the Government in Ukraine is the only one that can afford such a referendum, however the autonomous state has already denounced the government in Kiev as illegitimate and that they would govern themselves until a legitimate government is established, a right they hold under the agreements which gave them autonomy within the Ukrainian political system.

In other news Donestk an Oblast boardering Russia is now seeing numerous pro Russian protesters taking to the street, the government building has been occupied by protesters and the Russian flag has replaced the Ukrainian flag at the building. Ukrainian security forces are involved in the situation and have allegedly assaulted some protesters and detained others. The Russian flag has since been removed and replaced by the Ukrainian Flag and 2 busses have been used to block the government building from further incursion by pro Russian protesters.

This has been your ******** filtered afternoon news mash from EU/US/RUS sources. See you later this evening with the morning press releases from the EU, and Russia!.

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#193 Mar 06 2014 at 4:33 PM Rating: Excellent
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Stalker rdmcandie wrote:
So Obama, and Harper have decided to tell the people of Crimea that democracy only counts if it is democracy that the US and Canada support. Crimean officials have voted to go to a state wide referendum on the future of the Crimean State. The people of Crimea will go to the polls in 10 days to decide whether to remain part of the Ukraine, or join Russia.
I was actually a little surprised they went with a "join Russia" thing over a "let's leave Ukraine and be our own country" thing. Seems like the latter would be easier to justify to the international public.

Besides who doesn't like a puppet state? You tell them what to do, and if things go wrong you have a convenient scapegoat. Either way though. I guess we just sit and wait to see what Ukraine does in response. I can't imagine they could interfere without provoking a military response from Russia. There's not really any doubt what the result of the referendum will be. Smiley: rolleyes
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#194 Mar 06 2014 at 4:44 PM Rating: Decent
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Of course there is no doubt. 70% of the population is ethnic Russian. This isn't some Puppet master sh*t. The state is dominated by Russian Culture, Russian Language, Russian Indutry, Russian Security...because the people are Russian. Same with half the damn country. I wouldn't be shocked to see several Russian dominant Oblasts follow Crimea, not because Putin is some brilliant propagandist, but because the people living in these places identify more with Russia then they do with even the Ukrainians let alone the EU or US.

Really there is nothing anyone can do. Its hard to promote democracy when you **** on democratic process.

Edited, Mar 6th 2014 5:46pm by rdmcandie
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#195 Mar 06 2014 at 4:47 PM Rating: Excellent
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Stalker rdmcandie wrote:
Of course there is no doubt. 70% of the population is ethnic Russian. This isn't some Puppet master sh*t. The state is dominated by Russian Culture, Russian Language, Russian Indutry, Russian Security...because the people are Russian.
Well yeah, that was more or less my point.
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#196 Mar 06 2014 at 4:55 PM Rating: Decent
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So why call it a puppet state then?
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#197 Mar 06 2014 at 4:58 PM Rating: Good
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Wasn't the Crimean president guy rapidly appointed after the chaos in Kiev/right before Russian troops landed? And the Crimean government doesn't actually have the authority to hold a referendum about joining Russia/leaving Ukraine to begin with so the vote in 10 days is irrelevant.
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#198 Mar 06 2014 at 5:04 PM Rating: Decent
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Wasn't the Crimean president guy rapidly appointed after the chaos in Kiev/right before Russian troops landed? And the Crimean government doesn't actually have the authority to hold a referendum about joining Russia/leaving Ukraine to begin with so the vote in 10 days is irrelevant.


Ya about as rapidly as the current PM of Ukraine was appointed, and about as rapidly as his new government abolished equal language laws for the Russian speaking population. The people of Crimea have the power to do whatever the @#%^ they want. Democracy Mother@#%^er do you understand how it works? People of Crimea don't recognize Kiev as their government anymore, ergo their rules mean nothing. They can denounce it forever, it means sh*t. Crimea will do what Crimea wants to do.

How can you tell people they have no right to do something, while at the same time telling them they must follow laws from a government that is equally illegitimate. No one Voted Yats into power, nor any of the officials he has appointed since then.






Edited, Mar 6th 2014 6:07pm by rdmcandie
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#199 Mar 06 2014 at 5:05 PM Rating: Excellent
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Stalker rdmcandie wrote:
So why call it a puppet state then?


You're probably reading more into that then there is.

Every sizable country has states like this. They may share some degree of commonality, but there's one that's dominant economically and politically. Can call it something else if you prefer.

Edited, Mar 6th 2014 3:06pm by someproteinguy
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#200 Mar 06 2014 at 5:10 PM Rating: Decent
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someproteinguy wrote:
Stalker rdmcandie wrote:
So why call it a puppet state then?


You're probably reading more into that then there is.

Every sizable country has states like this. They may share some degree of commonality, but there's one that's dominant economically and politically. Can call it something else if you prefer.


I probably am. Just saying it is impossible to quantify Crimea as a puppet when the majority of its population is Russian.
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#201 Mar 06 2014 at 5:19 PM Rating: Excellent
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Meh, it's all shades of grey.
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