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Would this help queue times...Follow

#1 Sep 24 2014 at 5:52 PM Rating: Good
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Maybe this has been discussed before on the official side... But on the lower level (ie sub-50) DR's it can be an awful wait if you log in at the wrong time on a week day as a DPS.

What if there was an all encompassing option that threw you at whatever you had unlocked? It wouldn't affect Tank or Healer wait times... but I can see it helping us lowly DPS and still leaving the other bonuses on the table?
#2 Sep 24 2014 at 5:54 PM Rating: Excellent
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While in theory this sounds like a nice idea but don't think it would go over well as some people despise certain runs by selecting a universal one that means you might get it, instead of picking something you enjoy.
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#3 Sep 24 2014 at 6:05 PM Rating: Good
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That's kind of the point... How often do people do story runs? I do all the time as DPS because it's one of the fastest queues, I dislike them because if someone asks to do a full cutscene run I will oblige (because it's the right thing to do)... but they are often faster than waiting on a low or high level run as DPS.

Really at some point even the story or high level stuff needs to be bumped down to allow sub 50 folks, if only a percentage of the party. When we get a few years down the line, how long will the wait be for sub 50 folks regardless of the reward?
#4 Sep 24 2014 at 6:13 PM Rating: Excellent
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The only way they can help DPS wait times, is to increase the number of Tanks and Healers Qing up.

The only way they can improve Tanks and Heals wait times, is to make people want to tank or heal.

The only way they can make more people to want to tank or heal, is to make the roles more fun.

Why aren't the roles more fun?

Healer:
1). Early level dungeons are so snooze-worthy. My Cure is on Hotkey 2. Click Tank. 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 for 30min isn't all that engaging. Oh, now and then I need to click a DPS that pulled threat. Sometimes I need to hit 3 instead of 2 (Medica). Wow. Such gameplay. Much challenge.

2). Later Level Dungeons are too stressful. Fun the first couple times, but when you just want your 100 Myth and 3800 gil, places like Aurum Vale are not fun, esp if you end up with lesser-skilled people that keep dying to the same stuff over and over again.

3). Healing hate is simply ridiculous. Tank isn't quite up to snuff? "PING!!" on the second cure even if the tank flashed twice. So half of the time you end up getting beat in the face and you end up tanking the dungeon yourself, unless you're blessed with a MRD tank and even some of them only use Overpower sparingly.

Tanks:
Tanking multiple mobs as a PLD is a freaking nightmare. It reminds me of TBC Warrior in WoW (IE when tanking sucked). GLA/PLD only gets one.. count it, one AoE until Level 50. And it doesn't hold hate whatsoever. Tab-targeting and spamming the same 3 attacks on all the mobs trying to frantically keep them off of the healers, and still keep hate on your main target that everybody is unloading into isn't the funnest thing in the world to do.

Tanking also requires good gear; moreso than even a healer. If your gear isn't up to snuff, healer is getting more hate than they should because they are casting more cures than they should. And if God forbid your weapon is behind, it is even harder to hold hate and what should be a smooth run ends up into a "healer tank" run that I mentioned above.

Compare that to DPS where you just go in, and target the mob with the giant "1" above its head and blast away. If there are no marks, target tank, target his target, and blast away, OR, pick the mob from the list that has the lowest health.

Way more people play DPS because it is just simply more fun and less stressful.

Oh, and......solo.... GLA/PLD solo blows. It takes hours to kill anything, even compared to WHM. I couldn't believe how fast I was killing stuff compared to my other character at the same level. So unless you have another class leveled, there's really no reason to want to main GLA/PLD.

This was a HUGE reason as to why I "quit" playing the first time -- I was getting tired of how long it took to kill anything solo. It wasn't too bad in the 20s, 30s... but as 40s crept up, it started taking ages even with an up to date weapon and armor. My THM32 (still don't have ARC15 yet blah) can kill a Lv30 Toad in about 5 seconds. My GLA 42 was taking 6-8+ seconds to kill the same Lv30 mob. That's a bit ridiculous. That's with sword oath and the RoH combo and most up to date weapon I could find.

Edited, Sep 24th 2014 8:18pm by Lyrailis
#5 Sep 24 2014 at 7:25 PM Rating: Good
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Lyrailis wrote:
The only way they can help DPS wait times, is to increase the number of Tanks and Healers Qing up.

The only way they can improve Tanks and Heals wait times, is to make people want to tank or heal.

The only way they can make more people to want to tank or heal, is to make the roles more fun.


I agree with all of your points, except that at certain tiers people will not go back with healer or tank if it's not worth their time. Thus at some point in the game, the lower dungeons will have to be lumped together further or restrictions slightly lifted to let DF algorithm do it's thing with a bit more leverage on the needed classes. That time doesn't have to be now, but in the next year or so it's going to be 1+ hour wait times even for a tank or healer.
#6 Sep 24 2014 at 7:54 PM Rating: Good
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Most of the time, queues are always at the mercy of how many tanks are interested in running dungeons.

I'm not sure there's a workaround or other games that had queues(and subsequently, long queue times) would have already found it. If it's implemented as an option, most people would likely disable it. We've seen that with allowing players to decide if they wanted to accept or even queue at all for dungeons already in progress. If it's forced, players who don't want to participate won't queue at all and it will have the opposite of the intended effect.

I think the only real way to decrease queue times is to increase the pool by way of more incentive to actually run dungeons. Unfortunately that creates a problem of having other events being less favorable because their rewards would seem lackluster. This was kinda the issue back before dungeons were adjusted to be on par with FATEs. People basically solo'd while they were queue'd up for their dungeon run but since the rewards weren't as good, they were run once for the sake of story completion and quickly forgotten.
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#7 Sep 24 2014 at 8:45 PM Rating: Excellent
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I recently levelled Paladin to 50. Tanking multiple targets was difficult until Shield Oath. It gets easier after that.

I'll admit though, it gets nerve wracking. Tank sets the pace in dungeons, so of you've never tanked before and haven't done exceptional reading on a dungeon you could cause trouble. You have to lnow where to go, what to ignore, boss mechanics and what to stun/silence, when you should grab adds or just let the dps burn them down, all while keeping an eye on your rotation and MP, making sure to hit just the right cooldown at just the right time, hoping your healer is better at healing than you are at tanking. Also when you mess up you are the most visible person in the group so everyone will notice (and the mmo community is notoriously harsh on newbies or anyone who makes mistakes).

But if you want fast queues play tank. Or find a healer friend and get insta-queues. Seriously it's usually seconds for that queue to pop.
#8 Sep 24 2014 at 9:17 PM Rating: Excellent
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I've wondered for a while why this wasn't an option.
#9 Sep 25 2014 at 6:22 AM Rating: Decent
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DPS queues arent bad at all, especially on the times that i play.

I have to wait maybe 5 minutes as a DPS, that's more than reasonable. Most of the times it's quicker than that even.

The only thing that DOES **** me off a lot is Syrcus Tower. If i were to want to tank in ST, the queue for that as a tank is 45+ minutes, about 5-10 minutes as a healer and INSTANT as a DPS. Why for the love of fluffy chocobo's did they choose to put in only 3 tanks in a 24 man dungeon, when they know the ratio of Tanks/Healers/DPS players is 1/4,1/4 and 1/2 as per all the cencuses the did. Yes, they'd have to design content around having 3 more tanks, what's the point? Design things around having three more tanks then...
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#10 Sep 25 2014 at 6:32 AM Rating: Excellent
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played war since I started. Regretted nothing, instant ques 1-50. I can do whatever I want..... all the time. Tank, or turn Defiance off and DD for giggles. I'm gonna experiment with marauder again too.
#11 Sep 25 2014 at 7:13 AM Rating: Default
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Lyrailis wrote:
The only way they can help DPS wait times, is to increase the number of Tanks and Healers Qing up.

The only way they can improve Tanks and Heals wait times, is to make people want to tank or heal.

The only way they can make more people to want to tank or heal, is to make the roles more fun.

Why aren't the roles more fun?

Healer:
1). Early level dungeons are so snooze-worthy. My Cure is on Hotkey 2. Click Tank. 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 for 30min isn't all that engaging. Oh, now and then I need to click a DPS that pulled threat. Sometimes I need to hit 3 instead of 2 (Medica). Wow. Such gameplay. Much challenge.

2). Later Level Dungeons are too stressful. Fun the first couple times, but when you just want your 100 Myth and 3800 gil, places like Aurum Vale are not fun, esp if you end up with lesser-skilled people that keep dying to the same stuff over and over again.

3). Healing hate is simply ridiculous. Tank isn't quite up to snuff? "PING!!" on the second cure even if the tank flashed twice. So half of the time you end up getting beat in the face and you end up tanking the dungeon yourself, unless you're blessed with a MRD tank and even some of them only use Overpower sparingly.

Tanks:
Tanking multiple mobs as a PLD is a freaking nightmare. It reminds me of TBC Warrior in WoW (IE when tanking sucked). GLA/PLD only gets one.. count it, one AoE until Level 50. And it doesn't hold hate whatsoever. Tab-targeting and spamming the same 3 attacks on all the mobs trying to frantically keep them off of the healers, and still keep hate on your main target that everybody is unloading into isn't the funnest thing in the world to do.

Tanking also requires good gear; moreso than even a healer. If your gear isn't up to snuff, healer is getting more hate than they should because they are casting more cures than they should. And if God forbid your weapon is behind, it is even harder to hold hate and what should be a smooth run ends up into a "healer tank" run that I mentioned above.

Compare that to DPS where you just go in, and target the mob with the giant "1" above its head and blast away. If there are no marks, target tank, target his target, and blast away, OR, pick the mob from the list that has the lowest health.

Way more people play DPS because it is just simply more fun and less stressful.

Oh, and......solo.... GLA/PLD solo blows. It takes hours to kill anything, even compared to WHM. I couldn't believe how fast I was killing stuff compared to my other character at the same level. So unless you have another class leveled, there's really no reason to want to main GLA/PLD.

This was a HUGE reason as to why I "quit" playing the first time -- I was getting tired of how long it took to kill anything solo. It wasn't too bad in the 20s, 30s... but as 40s crept up, it started taking ages even with an up to date weapon and armor. My THM32 (still don't have ARC15 yet blah) can kill a Lv30 Toad in about 5 seconds. My GLA 42 was taking 6-8+ seconds to kill the same Lv30 mob. That's a bit ridiculous. That's with sword oath and the RoH combo and most up to date weapon I could find.

Edited, Sep 24th 2014 8:18pm by Lyrailis


Good post and I agree..

Lately when I run dps for me the waits have not been too bad... I actually get my trial almost instantly.
Tes says they can be longer during the day and I play more at night.
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#12 Sep 25 2014 at 7:25 AM Rating: Excellent
KojiroSoma wrote:
DPS queues arent bad at all, especially on the times that i play.

I have to wait maybe 5 minutes as a DPS, that's more than reasonable. Most of the times it's quicker than that even.

The only thing that DOES **** me off a lot is Syrcus Tower. If i were to want to tank in ST, the queue for that as a tank is 45+ minutes, about 5-10 minutes as a healer and INSTANT as a DPS. Why for the love of fluffy chocobo's did they choose to put in only 3 tanks in a 24 man dungeon, when they know the ratio of Tanks/Healers/DPS players is 1/4,1/4 and 1/2 as per all the cencuses the did. Yes, they'd have to design content around having 3 more tanks, what's the point? Design things around having three more tanks then...


Because people ******* about CT queues being 45 minutes as a DPS because you were always waiting for tank #6.
#13 Sep 25 2014 at 7:45 AM Rating: Excellent
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Are you thinking of this as an all-new DR with its own once-a-day bonuses or one that would possibly take the bonus of one of the other DRs? If it's the latter, then it might lock people out of getting the bonuses on their low level job that they wanted to use it on.

I'm also not sure if someone getting thrown into a EX primal, Coil turn or CT/ST without warning would be a good idea. That could be very messy.
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#14 Sep 25 2014 at 12:02 PM Rating: Good
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The only problem I see for this is what if you don't have the gear on you for the job that the roulette needs?

For instance I leveled WAR to 50, and haven't really touched it since because I realized I didn't enjoy it. I can't even switch jobs to WAR right now if I wanted to because all of the gear is on a retainer collecting dust.

Edited, Sep 26th 2014 10:01am by Hairspray
#15 Sep 25 2014 at 5:37 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
I'm not sure there's a workaround or other games that had queues(and subsequently, long queue times) would have already found it. If it's implemented as an option, most people would likely disable it. We've seen that with allowing players to decide if they wanted to accept or even queue at all for dungeons already in progress. If it's forced, players who don't want to participate won't queue at all and it will have the opposite of the intended effect.


I don't know why, maybe I'm just lucky... but I have never once run into a Run-in-Progress in XIV and I've done, well..... quite a few dungeon roulettes.

And those runs, only a few (2? 3?) ever had members being kicked or leaving in mid-run.

Maybe I'm just extraordinarily lucky...
#16 Sep 25 2014 at 10:51 PM Rating: Decent
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Lyrailis wrote:
I don't know why, maybe I'm just lucky... but I have never once run into a Run-in-Progress in XIV and I've done, well..... quite a few dungeon roulettes.

I could be wrong here, but I think they reversed the option that allowed you to queue for a dungeon in progress.

I think what was happening was people were abusing the mechanic. Basically they'd check the box for joining 'in progress' dungeons and when the confirmation would pop up telling them their group was ready, they had the option to accept or refuse the group. That essentially allowed people to refuse all fresh dungeons so they could skip bosses and they wouldn't have to clear the entire dungeon full of trash to get credit for a completion.

Again, I could be wrong about what was done about it(if anything at all), but it's the same concept here. I don't like being forced into(or out of) doing anything when it comes to gaming experience, but some of these things need to be in place to avoid the asshats who would take advantage from doing so. You might check to see if the option still exists these days, but I know that at one point it did. I think now it's just forced.
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Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#17 Sep 26 2014 at 5:18 AM Rating: Decent
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*stupid phone really likes multi posting on Zam lately :(*

Edited, Sep 26th 2014 11:20am by Perrin
#18 Sep 26 2014 at 5:19 AM Rating: Good
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Hairspray wrote:
The only problem I see for this is what if you don't have the gear on you for the job that the roulette needs?


What I envision is the DF would still follow iLVL restrictions, but it could throw you in anything you had access to. It would just be extra seals for folks at 50, but it would increase the chances of filling a slot in a sub 50 DR, specifically spots that have been in queue for a long time. I'm on my phone so I can't adequately respond to a few other posts at the minute.
#19 Sep 26 2014 at 11:38 PM Rating: Excellent
You can still queue for a dungeon in process via duty roulette. I think if you withdraw from a fresh dungeon, though, you've got some kind of alternate punishment, like a time lockout or something.
#20 Sep 27 2014 at 5:27 AM Rating: Decent
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I consistently get less than five minutes on my DRG. I also consistently get fifteen minutes plus on my BRD. Let's stop pretending this is a problem from all DPS, it's a problem for ranged DPS. There are entirely too many people playing ranged jobs and if you want to play on one, you get to wait. No adjustment is going to change that. I like my BRD and I like the the change of pace while playing it instead of DRG, but it's pretty much easy mode. Once you've learned a particular fight, you barely have to pay attention. That's probably why it's so popular.
#21 Sep 27 2014 at 7:06 AM Rating: Decent
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Turin wrote:
Once you've learned a particular fight, you barely have to pay attention. That's probably why it's so popular.


Isnt this true with any class in any MMO? I could easily say the same about DRG, or even WAR or MNK or WHM...

Edited, Sep 27th 2014 9:07am by reptiletim
#22 Sep 27 2014 at 7:47 AM Rating: Good
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Turin wrote:
I consistently get less than five minutes on my DRG. I also consistently get fifteen minutes plus on my BRD. Let's stop pretending this is a problem from all DPS, it's a problem for ranged DPS. There are entirely too many people playing ranged jobs and if you want to play on one, you get to wait. No adjustment is going to change that. I like my BRD and I like the the change of pace while playing it instead of DRG, but it's pretty much easy mode. Once you've learned a particular fight, you barely have to pay attention. That's probably why it's so popular.


WoW has had similar problems, and sadly Blizz decided to take the lazy way out to "fix" it for all but one class.

FFXIV and WoW both decided that Melee should be much more punishing than Ranged combat in any challenging content: most of what the bosses do punish melee far more heavily than they do ranged. There's really no upsides to even being melee in any grouped content, outside of any DPS imbalances (I hear MNKs are top? Not sure). Solo, you might be more survivable, but that isn't going to matter in group content when you have healers keeping you alive as long as you've got at least 3 functioning brain cells and can dodge the occasional thing on the ground thrown your way.

Meanwhile, melee are dealing with constant stuff the boss does that affects the areas near it: cone attacks, they are forced to hit the boss in the back, even though the boss is frequently changing directions because of the tank having to stay out of cone AoE, etc etc etc.

Blizz took the lazy way out: They are about to remove most of "Cast on the Move" spells from all Ranged Classes except one (Hunter). That's the only way they can think of, to make Ranged "challenging", to make them stand still to do anything? lol.

What I'd like to see, is for them to make Ranged and Melee more equal: lessen the ridiculous punishments for melee (must melee from behind, fewer mechanics melee have to deal with) and make ranged a bit more challenging to bring it in line with melee (do things like have more things for ranged to dodge).
#23 Sep 27 2014 at 7:50 AM Rating: Decent
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reptiletim wrote:
Turin wrote:
Once you've learned a particular fight, you barely have to pay attention. That's probably why it's so popular.


Isnt this true with any class in any MMO? I could easily say the same about DRG, or even WAR or MNK or WHM...

Edited, Sep 27th 2014 9:07am by reptiletim


Have you played BRD? You barely have to dodge, you just stand back and shoot. On the rare occasion that you do have to dodge, it doesn't even interrupt your abilities. Maybe, every once in awhile you toss out a song, but they aren't nearly as useful as they could be, so you can ignore them and most people won't notice. It's by far the easiest class in the game.

Edited, Sep 27th 2014 9:50am by Turin
#24 Sep 27 2014 at 8:39 AM Rating: Excellent
I like that a lot of the XIV bosses have AOEs that they can toss out at anyone, healer or DPS, as well as some AOEs that are enormous conal areas. Stone Vigil HM is a great example. Regardless of class, you're going to be running around on the first boss and the last boss there. BRD can't just stand in one place and shoot.
#25 Sep 27 2014 at 2:16 PM Rating: Excellent
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reptiletim wrote:
Turin wrote:
Once you've learned a particular fight, you barely have to pay attention. That's probably why it's so popular.


Isnt this true with any class in any MMO? I could easily say the same about DRG, or even WAR or MNK or WHM...

Edited, Sep 27th 2014 9:07am by reptiletim


You can never do white mage on auto-pilot. Scholar maybe, but not white mage. Things can go from routine to near-death experience at any moment and if you're half-asleep at the time, you're going to look especially foolish if your party wipes on something that should be easy.
#26 Sep 27 2014 at 2:35 PM Rating: Good
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Catwho wrote:
I like that a lot of the XIV bosses have AOEs that they can toss out at anyone, healer or DPS, as well as some AOEs that are enormous conal areas. Stone Vigil HM is a great example. Regardless of class, you're going to be running around on the first boss and the last boss there. BRD can't just stand in one place and shoot.


While that is true, BRD is the only class that doesn't have to stand still, ever that I know of (except for maybe songs?)

I know as a WHM, I hate the aforementioned Last Boss of Stone Vigil because a lot of times, someone will get smacked by one of the boss's AoE (which all seem to give powerful DoTs) and I need to cast.....oh but wait, I can't cast, because the boss throws things on the ground centered on me every 2 seconds. It is literally impossible to cast a spell until he finishes the whole phase. Regen is the one and only thing I can do, and if the said person is 40% health with a Frostbite DoT on them, Regen is not going to help a whole lot.

There's Swiftcast, but that's for Raise. If I blow it now, tank might drop dead 20 seconds later and then we're all screwed.

So it is "I NEED TO CAST NOW but the stupid boss won't let me for 45+ seconds."

That's why I HATE this whole "you must be standing still to do ANYTHING" and why I loathe Blizz's decision to remove 90% of all instant-cast abilities and/or severely nerf the few cast-on-the-go options we had (while at the same time I feel XIV needs a few more 'cast on the move' options, especially for healers).

They ask you to move way too often to require you to stand still to do everything.

And then you got BRD and Hunter. Why is it that ONE Class/Job is allowed to Range on the move when nobody else can? Where's the balance in that?
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