Greetings all,
I wanted to make a thread to ask some advice, given that most of my efforts to inquire about this in game have gone no where.
Outside of the game I tend to be a very busy person with several responsibilities. I am in graduate school, I work part time as an adviser at a second school, and I am also a volunteer for the environmental organization 350.org. Needless to say my schedule is hectic at best chaotic at worst.
I have very little time left over for when I play, which is why every time I seem to want to come back to FFXI I become utterly disappointed by the state of end game activities. In most games, you could just choose 1 class (job) to level and participate in end game when you can. Sure progress maybe slow, but its doable. In FFXI however, it seems like every time I return I run into the same issue: Job specific end game. In this game I always feel like a player needs to have multiple jobs leveled and geared in order to progress in end game. Allow me to explain, it seems that Skirmishes, Reforged BCNMs, and Delve have different job preferences / requirements. I currently have a 99 DRG and a 99 RDM. Those are the only two jobs I have had time to level and skill up / merit up to max. I could probably get by with them doing Skirmishes, maybe even Reforged if I got lucky, but I would likely run into a brick wall when it came to Delve where BRD, COR, and other jobs are much more preferred.
Certain jobs like WHM can get by the entire way, while other jobs (i.e., PUP) would have a much harder time getting into Delve groups that were not consisting primarily of friends / linkshell members.
With this said I wanted to ask,
Given that I have only DRG & RDM at 99, how should I proceed in terms of end game? I don't mind calling it quits on the end game front after Reforged armor, so long as I can get to that point id be satisfied. Heck, I don't think I've ever ONCE in the 12 years I've played FFXI — 6 months off 6 months on — been able to obtain top gear. It is usually because of the very same issue I described above. I just happen to not enjoy playing the jobs that are most useful for any given situation.
My second question is this, did the developers really make the game in such a way so that one needed to level multiple jobs to get by? Or is it the community that is focused on identifying the most optimal solution to the challenges and thus as a collective mentality certain jobs are limited or not encouraged for efficiency sake? Is this a player mentality issue or a game mechanics / development issue? Maybe both?
Lastly, I have two real life friends who just started playing, they wanted to know what jobs would be best to level for Skrimishes & Reforged BCNMS. I know the jobs they want to play are Ninja and Bard. Would these jobs be okay? I suggested BLM to them for end game but am unsure if this was a wise suggestion for anything beyond Skirmishes.
I appreciate any suggestions you all may have.
Thank you
Edited, Jul 24th 2014 12:25pm by Alazardragoonz
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At the current time (well I haven't logged in much in two weeks so who knows if something has changed) BRD is probably your best bet for getting invited to all content. Have not seen a shout for a NIN or a BLM in a long time.
Again, I have not been in town much for the last couple weeks (spent 2 days in Beaudeaux [s] trying to get a tasters cape then got annoyed and haven't logged in for a bit) but when I was briefly in town to dump items I saw a shout asking for a RDM.
With the new spells RDM is probably somewhat more viable than it has been for a long time but you'd likely have to make your own parties for most content. If you did make your own parties I don't see why you couldn't do skirmish (up to lower tier Raz'Kan) and Normal to Difficult mode of BCNMs etc. A lot depends on how geared you are. If you're undergeared/underskilled you won't excel on RDM and it wouldn't be fair to others to drag them out to things.
Things could change at any time but given that BRD has been given a very achievable 3-song harp and a sparks +2 instrument (tho should really only be using for ballad and a couple other songs - +3 instruments for many songs are easy to get) and it's buffs are AOE but also able to be single targeted and its hard to @#$% up - its probably going to remain a go-to buffer for a long while.
That said, if your RDM is geared well, has the new spells and you know how to play it you should be able to do a lot of endgame. However, you may have to set up runs yourself. There are things you can work on solo or soloish tho - like wildskeeper rieves which are open events that the whole server can do, and reward decent gear that can be augmented. RDM does well there and no one can stop you from going on that job.
Voidwatch still does runs and no one as far as I know is turned away regardless of job (though RDM not best there). You can solo meebles. You can solo farm dyna for relic armor, wins, and currency to fund your JSE weapon and other stuff.
You can definitely do SKNM runs for upgraded AF and relic on normal and probably difficult if you're well geared and get other well geared folks. The new storyline battlefields are probably doable on easy or normal (though drops won't be very good) - again depending on the battlefield (I don't know them all since I haven't done most of them) with a good team you might be able to increase that to difficult.
I'm not familiar with how haste 2 and flurry have changed things for RDM, but I get the impression its better off today than it has been in awhile. The ability to buff rangers could be pretty big to be honest, since BRD doesn't give RNG RA haste and RNG are pretty useful on a lot of content right now.
Again, I have not been in town much for the last couple weeks (spent 2 days in Beaudeaux [s] trying to get a tasters cape then got annoyed and haven't logged in for a bit) but when I was briefly in town to dump items I saw a shout asking for a RDM.
With the new spells RDM is probably somewhat more viable than it has been for a long time but you'd likely have to make your own parties for most content. If you did make your own parties I don't see why you couldn't do skirmish (up to lower tier Raz'Kan) and Normal to Difficult mode of BCNMs etc. A lot depends on how geared you are. If you're undergeared/underskilled you won't excel on RDM and it wouldn't be fair to others to drag them out to things.
Things could change at any time but given that BRD has been given a very achievable 3-song harp and a sparks +2 instrument (tho should really only be using for ballad and a couple other songs - +3 instruments for many songs are easy to get) and it's buffs are AOE but also able to be single targeted and its hard to @#$% up - its probably going to remain a go-to buffer for a long while.
That said, if your RDM is geared well, has the new spells and you know how to play it you should be able to do a lot of endgame. However, you may have to set up runs yourself. There are things you can work on solo or soloish tho - like wildskeeper rieves which are open events that the whole server can do, and reward decent gear that can be augmented. RDM does well there and no one can stop you from going on that job.
Voidwatch still does runs and no one as far as I know is turned away regardless of job (though RDM not best there). You can solo meebles. You can solo farm dyna for relic armor, wins, and currency to fund your JSE weapon and other stuff.
You can definitely do SKNM runs for upgraded AF and relic on normal and probably difficult if you're well geared and get other well geared folks. The new storyline battlefields are probably doable on easy or normal (though drops won't be very good) - again depending on the battlefield (I don't know them all since I haven't done most of them) with a good team you might be able to increase that to difficult.
I'm not familiar with how haste 2 and flurry have changed things for RDM, but I get the impression its better off today than it has been in awhile. The ability to buff rangers could be pretty big to be honest, since BRD doesn't give RNG RA haste and RNG are pretty useful on a lot of content right now.
For some of your specific questions:
Dragoon has some places in current end game. It typically does well--assuming at least decent gear and player ability (and nin sub)--in many of the new "hard mode" battles, particularly all of the arc angels. It has some place in some of the delve content, but as much as I love the job, it is not viable in all delves. If you want to try to use it in that content, it will mean being well geared and having relic hands to augment angon.
Skirmish is really relatively easy, and just about any job has a place in the content, again, assuming decent gear. More important to a successful skirmish pickup group is having a good mix of DDs, healing, and support.
Bard is always a go-to job for invites, although for some of the more difficult content, people will want relic or empy bards... although that demand may be reduced after 30 minutes of shouting and not getting anyone.
Currently, ranger and paladin are also in fairly high demand for some content. Paladin, however, is very demanding on both gear and compentancy; chosing to go that route pretty much mandates making a relic (aegis) or empy (ochain) shield.
Now, more generally: most Final Fantasy games, and this one in particular, function around using the right job for the right circumstances. Unlike many other MMORPGs, FFXI was designed to let players change between and advance multiple jobs, and I believe the designers have at least some expectation that players will do that for specific content. That doesn't mean you have to have all job leveled--let alone geared--but there is an expectation, especially this far into the game's life, that players will have multiple jobs available for different content. Often, this means one form of DD and one form of support, with maybe a tank and/or additional DDs thrown in as desired.
That said, most content doesn't demand particular jobs, and some people love to experiment with new techniques. However, when putting together a pick-up group, it isn't unreasonable for people to want to use tried and true methods to protect whatever investment they are making into the event; that is why you see people being picky for things like delve and hard mode battles, and not really caring much at all for VWNM.
Also, consider form the game-design prespective that leveling and gearing multiple jobs represents significantly more content for an individual player. This is simply one more mechanism to extend play time and content of the game. So, in short, yes, the developers did not expect people to just level one job to use for all content.
Dragoon has some places in current end game. It typically does well--assuming at least decent gear and player ability (and nin sub)--in many of the new "hard mode" battles, particularly all of the arc angels. It has some place in some of the delve content, but as much as I love the job, it is not viable in all delves. If you want to try to use it in that content, it will mean being well geared and having relic hands to augment angon.
Skirmish is really relatively easy, and just about any job has a place in the content, again, assuming decent gear. More important to a successful skirmish pickup group is having a good mix of DDs, healing, and support.
Bard is always a go-to job for invites, although for some of the more difficult content, people will want relic or empy bards... although that demand may be reduced after 30 minutes of shouting and not getting anyone.
Currently, ranger and paladin are also in fairly high demand for some content. Paladin, however, is very demanding on both gear and compentancy; chosing to go that route pretty much mandates making a relic (aegis) or empy (ochain) shield.
Now, more generally: most Final Fantasy games, and this one in particular, function around using the right job for the right circumstances. Unlike many other MMORPGs, FFXI was designed to let players change between and advance multiple jobs, and I believe the designers have at least some expectation that players will do that for specific content. That doesn't mean you have to have all job leveled--let alone geared--but there is an expectation, especially this far into the game's life, that players will have multiple jobs available for different content. Often, this means one form of DD and one form of support, with maybe a tank and/or additional DDs thrown in as desired.
That said, most content doesn't demand particular jobs, and some people love to experiment with new techniques. However, when putting together a pick-up group, it isn't unreasonable for people to want to use tried and true methods to protect whatever investment they are making into the event; that is why you see people being picky for things like delve and hard mode battles, and not really caring much at all for VWNM.
Also, consider form the game-design prespective that leveling and gearing multiple jobs represents significantly more content for an individual player. This is simply one more mechanism to extend play time and content of the game. So, in short, yes, the developers did not expect people to just level one job to use for all content.
Renatus (Titan)
"We are Dragoons, and to make short work of foppish cavalry is our bread and butter."
-Bob Shaftoe, The System of the World
"We are Dragoons, and to make short work of foppish cavalry is our bread and butter."
-Bob Shaftoe, The System of the World
End-game content range anywhere from solo-able at almost any decent melee job to very specific cookie-cutter setup. I put them as casual and hardcore content. Casual only need you to be smart enough not to make too many mistakes and hardcore content need not only the right job but top notch equipments also.
At this period of time, the strongest job for almost anything with the cheapest equipments you can get away with is Bst. The sad part is that you won't be getting into any party that do a lot of lv119 content. Mnk comes close to 2nd along Sam only if you can some how get a level 119 weapon. The odd ball job that seems to be useful at seemingly random places is Thf, only with a 119 weapon also. Brd, Whm and Sch are the 3 jobs that can get you into any content, with Brd having at least 3 songs.
Most level 109 (Normal) SKCNM20 can be done with a party of 3 players and 3 Trust NPC. Assuming the best equipment the party can get are lv117 Spark gear, recommended setup is 1 Pld, 1 Whm and 1 strong melee DD with 2 support NPC and 1 DD NPC (Ayame for Skillchain). Mnk DD with Mantra is highly recommended for battles that have Astral Flow. If you can get your hands on level 119 equipments/players then you don't need Pld as any competent lv119 DD can tank these battles.
Difficult and Very Difficult fights will require at least 4 very competent players + 2 Bards NPC with strong DD and at least lv119 weapons. This is because the mobs will be more much evasive and have higher HP. Skill chain is highly recommended if you're attempting Difficult fights. Recommended setup would be 1 Pld, 1 Whm, 1 Rdm or Sch, 3 DD or 2 DD with 1 Brd/Cor.
Low level Skirmish fights can be done solo with certain jobs but a party of 3 (Tank/Healer/DD) and 3 trust NPC can probably clear it. Yorcia Skirmish is problematic without a Sch or Blm to defend the camp. Recommended setup for that particular Skirmish is 1~2 Blm or Sch to defend the camp, 1 DD+3 trust NPCs to kill the flowers. Outer K. skirmish can be done with a party of 3-4 people and 2 support NPC with some difficulties.
High level battlefields like AAII or generally for lv119 Reforged gear will require lv119 players or at least weapons. Pld with Ochain is highly recommended on some of the fights if you are fighting in Normal (lv119). Pld with lv119 JSE shield from Oboro can still survive but it will depending on how he can keep his Reprisal spell up. Fighting these fights in Easy will be less dependent and Bst can generally help win most Easy/Very Easy fights.
At this period of time, the strongest job for almost anything with the cheapest equipments you can get away with is Bst. The sad part is that you won't be getting into any party that do a lot of lv119 content. Mnk comes close to 2nd along Sam only if you can some how get a level 119 weapon. The odd ball job that seems to be useful at seemingly random places is Thf, only with a 119 weapon also. Brd, Whm and Sch are the 3 jobs that can get you into any content, with Brd having at least 3 songs.
Most level 109 (Normal) SKCNM20 can be done with a party of 3 players and 3 Trust NPC. Assuming the best equipment the party can get are lv117 Spark gear, recommended setup is 1 Pld, 1 Whm and 1 strong melee DD with 2 support NPC and 1 DD NPC (Ayame for Skillchain). Mnk DD with Mantra is highly recommended for battles that have Astral Flow. If you can get your hands on level 119 equipments/players then you don't need Pld as any competent lv119 DD can tank these battles.
Difficult and Very Difficult fights will require at least 4 very competent players + 2 Bards NPC with strong DD and at least lv119 weapons. This is because the mobs will be more much evasive and have higher HP. Skill chain is highly recommended if you're attempting Difficult fights. Recommended setup would be 1 Pld, 1 Whm, 1 Rdm or Sch, 3 DD or 2 DD with 1 Brd/Cor.
Low level Skirmish fights can be done solo with certain jobs but a party of 3 (Tank/Healer/DD) and 3 trust NPC can probably clear it. Yorcia Skirmish is problematic without a Sch or Blm to defend the camp. Recommended setup for that particular Skirmish is 1~2 Blm or Sch to defend the camp, 1 DD+3 trust NPCs to kill the flowers. Outer K. skirmish can be done with a party of 3-4 people and 2 support NPC with some difficulties.
High level battlefields like AAII or generally for lv119 Reforged gear will require lv119 players or at least weapons. Pld with Ochain is highly recommended on some of the fights if you are fighting in Normal (lv119). Pld with lv119 JSE shield from Oboro can still survive but it will depending on how he can keep his Reprisal spell up. Fighting these fights in Easy will be less dependent and Bst can generally help win most Easy/Very Easy fights.
I don't have a lot of time to play also but still managed to find something to do without taking a break.
End game for me has took a back seat because I may need to afk a lot as I need to give the kids my attention.
So setting up events or joining shouts have been impossible for me.
Starting a relic has kept me going and I have a friend who is helping me when I am offline.
If I never had a friend ingame like her, I doubt I'd continue playing. :(
End game for me has took a back seat because I may need to afk a lot as I need to give the kids my attention.
So setting up events or joining shouts have been impossible for me.
Starting a relic has kept me going and I have a friend who is helping me when I am offline.
If I never had a friend ingame like her, I doubt I'd continue playing. :(
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